TOPIC:

Thanks guys, I'm off camping now as we have a long weekend in the UK.

Ian -

My point about "bogus single clasp KSA" is that there are two types of single clasp KSA:

1. Meet the criteria that the man did not serve 18 months in SA, but was granted a KSA on account of sick furlough served in the UK (usually)
2. As issued - man served 18 months in SA to earn the KSA but the issue of the medal was incorrect; SA01 clasp from one unit roll, SA02 clasp from KSA roll of second unit. The Mint issued a KSA with just SA02 clasp recognising the man had already received the SA01 clasp - the situation you describe. You do see such situations corrected on the medal roll.

Type 2 is what I call bogus.

Enjoy the weekend all.

Patrick Street published an article in the OMRS Journal years ago where he determined there were 502 single clasp medals to British units.

I followed it up with a roll in the OMRS Journal of the single bar KSA to Colonials. I quote from the article, which is hopefully not so much as to violate any rules. I wrote it anyway! But this gives examples of what Meurig means:

"There are others who may have a single bar medal, but not be entitled to it. Clasps could be earned on different rolls, which were compiled at different times, and the medal or clasps were issued at different times. From examining the notes on the rolls the intention seems to have been to send out what was qualified for, not to make sure it made up a whole medal. For example Pte LS Foot of the Cape Police PD1 was issued his medal with 1902 clasp in 1903, but seems to have gotten the 1901 clasp, possibly by itself, later in 1903 when the rolls were checked again. 701 J Naylor of Ashburners Light Horse was issued his 1901 clasp on 27/9/05 and his 1902 clasp on 25/1/06. If these were sent out separately they may never have been attached correctly."

I counted 25 single bar KSA's to Colonials but I have identified a couple more since then.

There were 106 no bar KSA's to Conductors in the ASC too (another article I wrote in Medal News in December 2008).

Ryan

Hello Meurig,
A superb pair, I should not worry too much about not winning with a particular bid in a particular saleroom, you are in Great Britain and therefore you have unlimited access to a huge amount of medals every day of the week, without being concerned whatsoever about postage, customs and revenue issues.
A lovely example of a KSA clearly verified in WO100/186 and a really nice untouched group, a rare thing these days, a pity about that bayonet, given the events of April 1898, one assumes actually on Malta, I wonder if it was the actual one?
Perhaps not!
Moreover, if that is how he treated his "comrades" one does tend wonder how he treated the Queens enemies whilst out on the veldt?
Regards Frank

SWB wrote: Hello all

While I was busy losing at City Coins last week to certain well heeled members of this Forum I was fortunate to acquire a single clasp KSA:

Private 5504 Henry Painter 1st bn Border Regiment, wounded 20-01-1900 Tabanyama (Spion Kop in the casualty roll)
QSA - CC,T,RoL,SA02
KSA - SA02
Two lovely pictures and a host of original paperwork - including the cutting from a paper showing his name on the casualty list - cut out by his worried parents no doubt.

The KSA is verified - after being wounded and evacuated to England he was granted sick furlough to count as service, then returned to South Africa in January 1902. The KSA was issued 1910. The SA02 clasp on the QSA was issued in error, it is not clear where the Transvaal was issued from, the extra clasp roll has lots of scribbles on it. It would seem likely that he earned it in 1902.

There is plenty to do on this group, and next week I will post better images of the pictures.

A bayonet with his name on it was sold separately in the same sale, I did not know until after the sale when I saw the whole catalogue (I use the-saleroom to search for medals not bayonets).

David - can we have a category on single clasp KSAs? I am sure there is at least one lurking amongst Forumites collections.

Regards
Meurig

Here is the thread of the article by Patrick Street......

www.angloboerwar.com/forum/5-medals-and-...bar-ksa?start=6#7397

Mike

I have had this group for many years and as yet have not done anything about researching why our man has two KSA single clasp S.A. 1901. All the medals are correctly named in the correct period style. The group came with a lot of paperwork and a photo or two, one clearly showing the medals (only one KSA) being worn sometime post WW2. I can confirm his entitlement for WW1 WW2 and coronation medals but have nothing on his boer war medals.
QSA 1159 Trp. C.G.GILFILLAN, first KSA 75 CONDR. E.G. GILFILLAN A.S.C., second KSA 75 C.G. GILFILLAN A.S.C. The different first initial suggests that a second KSA was requested and issued but again with single clasp? a real oddity
I know that a single 1901 clasp is not possible but this group has apparently been worn in in the presence of George VI at his coronation celebrations.
Any suggestions where to look would be helpful
Gordon

Wow Gordon that is a lovely group and had made me drool! If you ever sell...

Anyway a single 1901 clasp is indeed possible.

There are a few rare ones about.

What would happen is that someone would be in a unit that couldvearn a KSA with bars, say the infantry. They serve in 1901.

They then leave that unit and join specifical the ASC as a Conductor.

They serve into 1902 and complete a total of 18 months.

Now they qualify for a KSA but two sets of rules apply. First they have qualified for the 1901 clasp while in the infantry. They deserve that so they get it. But then the clerk looks at the qualification for the 1902 clasp and says nope, they were a Conductor and those guys can get a KSA but without clasps.

So the rules together give him a 1901.

This is very rare is verified and well worthy of further research.

I wrote an OMRS article on it with a roll, I will look it up during the day.

I would start with copies of the rolls as they would sometimes show movement between units.

Awesome group that has made me hsppy to just see the picture!

Ryan