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Fredrick John Clarke 9 years 3 months ago #24508

  • SusieW
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Dear Ian

Thank you so much for taking the time to look at all these things - it is very good of you. I'll get on the case with Ancestry and will speak to the older members of the family to see if they can provide any more clues.

With best wishes,

Susie

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Fredrick John Clarke 9 years 3 months ago #24509

  • Frank Kelley
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That is certainly a very interesting piece of newspaper, in particular, the reference to "three South African medals with five clasp's" I wonder if that was correct, I also note that he is not referred to in the past sense, so, was alive at the time and had survived the Great War, do you know where and when he died, also you mention a photograph in an earlier post?
Looking at this from just the Anglo Boer War, the piece of newspaper and the other information you mention, one does tend to assume that he did serve in the 1st Battalion Suffolk Regt, if that was indeed the case, then an omission would need to have taken place in the published casualty returns, not so unusual, they are merely transcribed from the originals.
Five clasp's does indeed lend itself nicely to a QSA/KSA pair of medals for the war to this regiment, Clarke is a very common name in this regiment throughout it's existence, but, if he enlisted using an alias then this matter becomes more difficult.
We have examined John Clarke already, so assuming the name is correct, a very brief look at WO100/174 and WO100/323 leaves us with 4474 Corporal F Clarke and 2203 Private F Clarke, we can discount the latter, after a brief look at WO364, Frederick Clarke joined the regiment in 1888 at the age of 18 years old and was born in Hadleigh, moreover, he did not receive a KSA and did not have the "five clasp's" referred to already.
So we are left with only 4474 Corporal F Clarke as a possible candidate, he certainly does not jump out at me when I looked for him yesterday, I will look again in due course.

SusieW wrote: Hi Ian

I'm (hopefully) attaching the copy from the Bucks Standard which gives all the information I have about Fredrick Clark. It is actually notification about the death of his son (who's plane went down in WWII) but it gives a potted history of Fred's military career - just in case this helps. It's all I have had to go on.

Many thanks once again.

Susie

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Fredrick John Clarke 9 years 3 months ago #24510

  • Frank Kelley
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I think the next best thing to do would be to talk to your family, without the newspaper and see what they actually do know, of course, if you did find his medals, then assuming they were his, then you have found your man, beyond doubt and quite regardless of the regiment/corps that they are named to.

SusieW wrote: Hi Ian

I'm keeping everything crossed this is the same person - but you are right, we need to be sure.

Frederick John b. 1st Jan 1878 in Thurlton, Norfolk (moved to Suffolk aged 3 yrs to Blythburgh and often in the census returns this is put down as his place of birth).

Parents Thomas Charles Clarke and Anna (nee Scarll).

Not sure of his medals because they are "lost" somewhere in the family. All I know is that there were 7 of them (we have fuzzy photograph of them) one of which has bars on it; one looks like a star. Only detail as mentioned in the newspaper article. Apparently he was "mentioned in dispatches" and my aunt remembers a letter signed by ?the king and/or Churchill - but alas that has gone the same way as the medals.

Hope that helps.

Thank you so much for all your help.

Best wishes,

Susie

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Fredrick John Clarke 9 years 3 months ago #24512

  • Ians1900
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Susie,

Frank makes a good point that the 5 bars mentioned could be 5 in total - 3 on the QSA Medal and 2 on the KSA Medal. Frank also narrows down our men to 4474 Cpl F Clarke.

Your information states that your Great Grandfather was a POW - 4474 Cpl F Clarke was not. Here is a list of all of the Clarke's who served with the Suffolk Regiment during the Boer War and what happened to them (Cross referenced between the QSA and KSA Medal Rolls and the Regimental Journal. There are two F Clarke's and one J Clarke.

2203 Pte F Clarke served with the 8th Mounted Infantry, only received the QSA Medal and was not a POW.
4474 Cpl F Clarke served with the Regiment, received the QSA and KSA Medals, but as stated above was not a POW.
2692 Pte J Clark served with the Regiment, received the QSA and KSA Medals and WAS a POW, but we know from Frank's earlier post that he was too young to be your Great Grandfather and was born in Suffolk.

As Frank and I have both said, unfortunately further investigation is still required. Maybe more of these Clarke's are also members of your family?

Kind regards

Ian

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Fredrick John Clarke 9 years 3 months ago #24515

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Hello Iain,
Can I ask how you know that Corporal Clarke was not a prisoner of war?
Regards Frank

Ians1900 wrote: Susie,

Frank makes a good point that the 5 bars mentioned could be 5 in total - 3 on the QSA Medal and 2 on the KSA Medal. Frank also narrows down our men to 4474 Cpl F Clarke.

Your information states that your Great Grandfather was a POW - 4474 Cpl F Clarke was not. Here is a list of all of the Clarke's who served with the Suffolk Regiment during the Boer War and what happened to them (Cross referenced between the QSA and KSA Medal Rolls and the Regimental Journal. There are two F Clarke's and one J Clarke.

2203 Pte F Clarke served with the 8th Mounted Infantry, only received the QSA Medal and was not a POW.
4474 Cpl F Clarke served with the Regiment, received the QSA and KSA Medals, but as stated above was not a POW.
2692 Pte J Clark served with the Regiment, received the QSA and KSA Medals and WAS a POW, but we know from Frank's earlier post that he was too young to be your Great Grandfather and was born in Suffolk.

As Frank and I have both said, unfortunately further investigation is still required. Maybe more of these Clarke's are also members of your family?

Kind regards

Ian

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Fredrick John Clarke 9 years 3 months ago #24519

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Hi Frank,

Well, firstly I happen to have the pages from the Suffolk Regt Journal relating to the Colesberg Operations, which are very specific and he isn't mentioned there. I also have a copy of the South African Field Force Casualty Returns and he isn't mentioned there either. Finally, I looked at the information David provided on this website regarding prisoners released from Watervaal, Nootegedacht and Barberton and he isn't there either.

I know that singularly none of these sources are 100% foolproof, but I would find it hard to believe that Cpl Clarke would have been omitted from everything.

Of course a look at his service papers is recommended, as they will always be the best source of information.

What do you think about the 12 months in captivity? I certainly haven't come across that before.

Also, the newspaper article mentions three South African medals; what do you think that could be? Kimberley Star perhaps? If so not a Suffolk Regt infantryman. I still wonder about Mounted Infantry being a possibility.

Sometimes this is easy, but not this one!

Kind regards
Ian

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