TOPIC:

Hello Chris.

The information as promised.

With reference to the Queens South Africa and Kings South Africa campaign medals. Your Grandfather's regimental number was 3506.
He served in the 2nd and 4th Dragoon Guards at some point in his early army career. His clasp entitlement was very different to the ones you have. He was awarded the Cape Colony, Orange Free State and Transvaal clasps and the 2 date clasps for his KSA which are correct. The inscription around the medal looks to be of inferior quality and may have even been etched by someone in the family. Either way the attached clasps do not correlate to Walter's entitlement for his service in the Boer War. His WW1 configuration is correct.
He served with the Royal Fusiliers attached to the 25th Battalion Frontiersmen and served in East Africa from 1915 to 1917. His regimental number was 13648. He then moved on to the Labour Corps during 1918 on this occasion his regimental number was 546777. During his time in East Africa he contracted malaria and dysentery

Regimental numbers attributed to your Grandfather.
3913, 3506, 13648 & 546777.

Additional documentation for your records.









Dave........

Hello Chris,

Your GF's 1889 attestation papers and service records covering his service in the Second Boer War can be found on Find My Past and are attached to this post (hopefully legible as I had to crop and electronically shrink them to be be able to post them on this site).

They confirm he was born in London. He initially joined the 4th Dragoon Guards and when he had completed 7 years active service, including service in India (see top of page 4), he was transferred in 1897 to the Army Reserve. From page 3 you can see he was recalled in 1900 to serve in the Second Boer War and at the same time transferred to the 2nd Dragoons. The QSA clasps cited on page 4 agree with the info supplied by Dave F.

You have a PFT on Ancestry - are you aware your GF appears on 3 others presumably created by relations of yours but probably distant.

Regards, David.

This is fantastic, thanks so much for taking the time here.

I wanted to make an archive of everything I found or could be found Is this all from the National Archives, or are there other sources I should be looking at? I'd like to get some high res images but don't think we can do that via this site. Is it possible to send them to my email [email protected] I had seen a few of these documents but not the ones that help trace it all the way back or the medal records.

One question I have is how do you know whether it is 2nd dragoon guards or the 2nd dragoons that he was transferred too? I'll have to start researching the dragoon guards now

Thanks once again

Hi David

Brilliant, thank you for your help and time. This is all starting to create quite a picture. Just a question how do you know if it is the 2nd dragoons or dragoons guards that he transferred too? Dave F had him down as 2nd dragoon guards?
But then 2nd dragoons would match the inscription on the medals as well?

I did see that someone else was "investigating" his family tree maybe that's through his first marriage - that needs further exploring once I sort out the military history Which do you think is best Ancestry or Find my Past or do you need both?

Again as I said to Dave F, if you wouldn't mind sending me high res images to [email protected] that would be fantastic as I am trying to compile an archive.

Are there any other sources to try and find out more about the early military career - or is that more generic stuff. I'd love to find out about the time in India?

Thanks and best wishes.

chrislawson wrote: This is fantastic, thanks so much for taking the time here.

I wanted to make an archive of everything I found or could be found Is this all from the National Archives, or are there other sources I should be looking at? I'd like to get some high res images but don't think we can do that via this site. Is it possible to send them to my email [email protected] I had seen a few of these documents but not the ones that help trace it all the way back or the medal records.

One question I have is how do you know whether it is 2nd dragoon guards or the 2nd dragoons that he was transferred too? I'll have to start researching the dragoon guards now

Thanks once again

All the information can be found on Ancestry, Unfortunately I have binned all the documents I posted previously.
You can join Ancestry for a trial period for free. After the trial period there is a charge. You can join for limited periods of time which should give you the chance to download what you need.

With reference to Dragoon / Dragoons.
noun - Dragoon a member of any of several cavalry regiments in the British army.

plural noun: Dragoons a member of any of several cavalry regiments in the British army.

Also, looking closely at the medals with the inferior inscription, there looks to be some lettering under the inscription. It is possible that the previous naming may have been erased for some reason. The enigma remains as to why your Grandfather had 5 clasps he wasn't entitled to. Good luck.

I wish you well in your future research.



Dave......

Hi Chris - there is no doubt your GF initially served in the 4th Dragoon Guards and went out to "India" with them in September 1894:



They sailed from Southampton on 12th September 1894 as this clip from a newspaper of 14th September 1894 confirms:



Thy were initially based at Rawalpindi which is why I used quotation marks above as today Rawalpindi is in Pakistan. They were still there in February 1895 and obviously having a "spiffing" good time as this clip from a newspaper of 16th February 1895 shows:



I should not mock, as previously they had been at Waterloo & their actions in the Crimea were immortalised by Tennyson as this extract from a letter of to the Army & Navy Gazette of 22nd December 1894 shows:



I do not have time to search through 3 years of ancient newspapers for mentions of the 4th Dragoon Guards but you could by paying Ancestry a bit more cash. It would also allow you to look for mentions of the 2nd Dragoons in South Africa. The Unit information on this site also tells you quite a bit about what the 2nd Dragoons did in South Africa.

The last newspaper clipping tells us the 4th Dragoon Guards were Heavy Cavalry which is probably why they remained in India for the duration of the Second Boer War, they eventually returned home in 1908.

Why did your GF return home "early" in 1897 - because he had completed the 7 years of active service he had originally signed up for in 1898, he could have opted to extend his active service but obviously chose not to. When he was recalled from the Army Reserve in 1900 it was for the specific purpose of protecting the Nation & Empire against the Boers and hence his transfer to the 2nd Dragoons - they were Light Cavalry and much more use against the highly mobile Boers. As a member of the Light Cavalry he who have been required to get off his horse at times and fight on foot. It was very much against the grain for Heavy Cavalry (who considered themselves the bees knees) to fight on foot.

I will email you copies of the records I found on Find My Past.

Regarding the "wrong" medal you have with your GF's name on - I would tentatively suggest he lost (or sold) his original QSA (3 clasps) & KSA (2 clasps) and when he "needed" them again went round to the local pawn shop in a hurry and had his purchase re-engraved, which he might have done himself resulting in a rather poor job.

Regards, David.