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The Pembrokeshire Imperial Yeomanry 1 year 4 months ago #91579

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David,

This is exceptional research. Thank you.

As far as Swansea is concerned, I have wondered whether the Sutherland medal was unique, presented by a number of friends rather than by the town itself. If the tribute medal had been a civic gift I would have expected to have found reports of further distributions.

Neville
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The Pembrokeshire Imperial Yeomanry 1 year 4 months ago #91582

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Neville - I tend to agree.

Neil McIndeor who presented "Dai" Sutherland with his "gold" medal was Scottish by birth and died in Brecon in 1939 and the local solicitors put a notice in the paper asking for claims on his estate and referred to him as a "Draper". The 1901 & 1911 censuses show him living in Swansea - in Northampton Place in 1911 which was a smart address. He gave his occupation as "Credit Draper".

On Roots Chat somebody asked what was a "Credit Draper"? - these are the responses by those allegedly in the know:

Response 1 = "The items of drapery would have been bought on credit from the drapery shop and he was responsible for collecting the weekly payments. The forerunner of today's credit cards. It is possible that he sold the actual goods door to door."

Response 2 = "They were also sometimes known as Scotch drapers or tallymen, and the trade did not always have a great reputation. Some charged what amounted to extortionate rates of interest, and exploited their customers, who were on the whole poor and didn't have many choices. The reputable members of the trade were at great pains to emphasise just how upstanding and well-regulated their profession was, and to distance themselves from the unscrupulous operators who were getting them a bad name."

So I suspect the medal was a one off with Mr McIndeor telling the good folk of Swansea what an upstanding chap he really was.

Btw my research into A V Lang (of varied occupation) was greatly helped by his appearance on a well researched Public Members Tree on Ancestry, I can't remember the creator's relationship to AVL but he is the owner of the photo taken in Tenby.

David.
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The Pembrokeshire Imperial Yeomanry 1 year 4 months ago #91627

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The 19th July 1901 acceptance speech of Councillor-Trooper 4191 Richard Gordon Roberts on being awarded a Gold Medal by the people of Caernarvon following his return home after 1 year 117 days service (including the journey there and back) in South Africa with the Pembrokeshire Imperial Yeomanry.

It is important to note his speech is not reported verbatim so there may be some inaccuracies introduced by the newspaper reporter.

When Richard (by then) Gordon-Roberts died in 1957 he left behind a Queen’s South Africa medal with four clasps and a King’s South Africa Medal with both date clasps. When it was issued his QSA only bore three clasps and he was never issued with the KSA. He definitely did not go back to South Africa to earn any additions to his medal as frequent newspaper reports show him to have been in Caernarvon fulfilling his duties as a Councillor & solicitor for the remainder of 1901 and throughout 1902.

During the speech he claimed, prior to enlisting in the Imperial Yeomanry, 13 years of service in three militia’s, two of which were remote from Caernarvon where he had spent all his previous life. When he attested in February 1900 he answered “No” to both the questions regarding previous military experience.

He left enlisting late, 13th February 1900 when recruiting had started in early January 1900, and only just made it onto the books of the first contingent of the Pembrokeshire Imperial Yeomanry. He was 27 years old when he attested.

Lots of other speeches were made – by the “great and good” of Caernarvon, Dr Robert Mills formerly of the Welsh Hospital in South Africa and, to end proceedings, the star guest speaker, Judge Grantham – the reporter seemed to expect his readers to know who this last gentleman was. All these speakers roundly condemned British people who opposed the war and accused them of being the main cause of the war continuing for so long. The Judge had obviously had a major stack-up in the newspapers with the Dean of Durham on the matter. Only one speaker had any criticism for the War Office. Another described God as being a “Man of War”. Another declared the French to be our natural enemy – the “Entente Cordiale” was 3 years away. The Judge also reported he now had a reduced workload as the crime rate had noticeably fallen since the start of the war.

Anyway, here is the report of the Councillor’s acceptance speech - it appeared in the newspaper as a single very long paragraph. At end I have added some more comments on the content:

Councillor R. Gordon Roberts, on rising to respond, was received with great cheering and the singing of "He's a jolly good fellow." He said that it was difficult for him to find words to express his feelings on that occasion. He could assure them that since he had been home so warm, so kind, and so affectionate had been the reception of his friends that he had had no opportunity of preparing anything until he came there that night. What had surprised him more than once were the questions that were asked - Why has he gone? What has he done? What man has he robbed? (laughter). Whom has he murdered? (renewed laughter). The fact was that he had been a Volunteer for thirteen years. He had been a member of the Royal Naval Artillery Volunteers, of the Infantry, of the Denbighshire Hussars, and ultimately of the Pembrokeshire Yeomanry. Was it, therefore, surprising that he had gone to the war? The ratepayers and the taxpayers of the country had paid to educate him in military matters, and when the time for action came he thought it would not be right for him to stay at home and allow other young men to go out. If he had stayed at home, under such circumstances he would all his life have reproached himself and called himself everything that was vile. He was proud of the opportunity of doing something when he found that the old country was in peril and there was not the slightest doubt that at that period the country was in peril. He regarded the welcome given to him more in the light of an appreciation of the Volunteer movement. When the call to arms was sounded men from all positions came together to try to save the old Empire. At the time he left there were people who said that he was only a little paltry solicitor and they wondered why did he go, but he might say that he met men in the best positions in the country who did exactly what he did, and they were proud to stand by the side of their brothers, the regular army. A man had a duty to perform. Unless he had a wife and family dependent upon him it was his duty to do something for his country. There was a time when his enthusiasm did flag a little, but today he did not regret the step he took. He was afraid that the people of Carnarvon had created a new office when they called him a Trooper Councillor and he was wondering what he should put on his arm, whether the three eagles or cross champagne bottles. He believed that there ought to be some recognition of the Volunteers, and he was glad to understand that the old Naval Artillery Volunteers were to be re-established, and should this come to pass he should be one of the first to try to get into them again. He had occasionally received English newspapers and he regretted to find in them statements to the effect that the soldiers were not behaving as they might towards the Boer refugees. A viler, a crueller, and a more slanderous statement was never published. Personally he thought it was a very unpleasant job to clear the farms and turn the people away. The Boer women would even make fun of Tommy Atkins and were very disagreeable, but we always took it in good humour. Tommy Atkins had his faults like every other man, but he was a born, natural and perfect gentleman as regards women and children. On one occasion he was with a company of Lancers, and they got into a hot corner. Three men were killed and nine were wounded, and all with explosive bullets, which caused terrible wounds. While bringing the bodies in the Boer women, who were refugees, giggled with glee and enjoyment. How different from the conduct of the British soldier. A woman died in the laager the same day and she was laid to rest by these demons, these fiends, as they had been described, with as much tenderness as if she had been their own mother. So deeply did he feel the insults cast upon the British soldiers that he should like to have five minutes with the man who wrote such articles as he had referred to. He had been asked when the war would be at an end and what was the cause of it. His opinion was that the war ought to end this winter, because all the farms had been cleared, and he might add that the war would have been over months and months ago if the people who wrote and spoke these things they did would have been shut up and kicked out of the country. When he spoke of these matters he was not romancing. Whatever he said was a fact and he had authority for it. He and a friend were one day far away from the column when they came upon a party of Boers. His friend was shot in three places, and his horse was also shot under him; and he (Mr Roberts) thought himself very lucky to get away at all. His friend was taken prisoner and placed in a laager, which was under the command of Pretorius. The rank and file were very disagreeable to the man, and but for the commandant he had no doubt that he would have been roughly treated. The commandant, however, looked after him, dressed his wounds, and gave him a cigarette and several other things. After these preliminaries the commandant asked the prisoner what he thought of the war, to which the latter’s reply was that his candid impression was that the Boers were awfully silly, they were hopelessly beaten and were now fighting not against the British but against their own kith and kin. Pretorius acknowledged that they were hopelessly beaten, and the only thing they could do would be to hold out "because you have your own people in England, three fourths of them, in our favour and with us, there will soon be a great revulsion of feeling and the present Government will be thrown out, and the war will be stopped. We have only to hold out”. English papers were received in the laager and interpreted by men who placed their own construction on their contents. The incident he had mentioned related only to the impression on the mind, but he had met hundreds of others whose impression was that if they only held out a little while longer there would be a change. He did not think that was right. There were men out there who had families and who wished to return home to England. They endeavoured to be as cheerful as possible and to do their best, still they wanted to come home. He (Mr Roberts) did not think that two or three men stumping the country should be the means of keeping them out there. That was undoubtedly the cause of their being there. They recognised the fact that they were beaten, and instead of coming to the open they cleared away at every opportunity into isolated positions and attacked small parties. These facts were easily corroborated. He hoped that as far as this country was concerned this winter would see the end of the war. Attached as he had been to mounted police he had assisted in bringing in a large number of men. All of them would say that they were tired and would sooner be under British rule than as they were. The Boer was not a bad fellow; he was a decent man in many respects. His complaint was, here I am, I have finished fighting and I want to go back to my farm, but these agitators come and pull me out again, and I am bound to go. If peace were once declared he ventured to say that the Boer would be found to be quite a different man and that if he were at war with another nation the Boer would be about the first man to fight for the British. At present he was completely misled by wrong representations. Mr Roberts concluded by again thanking the company for the appreciation they had shown to the volunteer movement. He did not think he had lost anything in going out. He never was healthier, not having had more than a couple days' illness. He was very thankful for it and was not ashamed to acknowledge that he felt it to be due to the good wishes and the earnest prayers of his friends at home. He went out one out of 126 and of this number only 43 returned home In accordance with the custom of men who had been out and returned safely. He invited the company to drink in silence to the memory of the men who did not return. The invitation was responded to, all the company standing up in solemn silence.

Some further comments/thoughts:

“He was afraid that the people of Carnarvon had created a new office when they called him a Trooper Councillor and he was wondering what he should put on his arm, whether the three eagles or cross champagne bottles.” The three eagles referred to the Caernarvonshire flag which bears three eagles. Was he locally noted for imbibing champagne? Champagne was fed liberally to his comrade in arms 4158 Trooper L G Bullin when he lay in hospital suffering from enteric fever. I think it was considered to help combat the disease but it did not work in this case as Trooper Bullin died in hospital during November 1900.

“Pretorius” ??? Definitely not Andries Pretorius leader of the “Great Trek” who Pretoria was named after. Unlikely to have been his son although he did not die until May 1901. Most likely candidate I have found, thanks to Elmarie’s post of 6 years ago, is Major Johannes Lodewijk Pretorius, captured 18th December 1901 and spent rest of war on St Helena. Any other suggestions?

“On one occasion he was with a company of Lancers, and they got into a hot corner. Three men were killed and nine were wounded….”. Three killed and nine wounded puts him at Fauresmith on 19th October 1900 and makes him a member of Section 1 of the Company, which is not altogether surprising as he was once the owner of the Fauresmith photographs posted by Neville. The “Lancers” is either the reporter not being able to read his notes or the “Trooper-Councillor” having a bad memory – the Seaforth Highlanders were the regular troops also involved in the engagement Another thought occurs in view of his bogus KSA – was he not actually there and this was another bit of self-aggrandisement?

The Identity of the “friend” who was taken prisoner and “interviewed” Pretorius? The story rings a bell and I think a newspaper report stored against one of “my” other 114 first contingent rank and file might allow identification – the problem is finding it!

“people in England, three fourths of them, in our favour and with us, there will soon be a great revulsion of feeling and the present Government will be thrown out, and the war will be stopped. We have only to hold out” I have never seen written before that the hope of a change of Government in Britain was a reason some Boers persevered so long when their cause was really lost. If it has any truth then the other speakers had some real basis for accusing outspoken British opponents of the war as being a major cause for the war dragging on.

The numbers given at the end are not quite accurate. All other reports state it was 121 rather than 126 out on the Montrose and just over a year later 44 rather than 43 back on the Roslin Castle. The 126 could have included a first small batch of early reinforcements. He could have said “43 besides himself” and the 44 is reporter error. All these figures do overstate the overall true attrition rate as at least 10 either opted to be discharged to civilian life in South Africa, join another unit or continue with the second contingent. However, the attrition rate in the field was very high – Section 1 which must have started with 30 or 31, by Fauresmith, just under 6 months after they arrived in South Africa, were reduced to 20 in the field – by the end of 1901, just under 8 months after they arrived in South Africa the other 3 sections had been reduced in the field from the original 90 or 91 to “less than 40”.
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The Pembrokeshire Imperial Yeomanry 1 year 4 months ago #91629

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Thank you David,

This adds considerably to what I already knew about Gordon-Roberts.

Here is a photograph of the silver spirit flask that was presented to him on departure.

PRESENTED / BY THE / Carnarvon Conservative / Working Men's Club / TO / its Secretary / R. GORDON ROBERTS ESQ. / (SOLICITOR) / In recognition of his gallantry / in going to the front / with the / Imperial Yeomanry / during the / SOUTH AFRICAN CAMPAIGN / February 1900.

Reverse with with monogram RGR.

London hallmarks for 1899 and maker's initials "MN & WB" [for Mappin & Webb Ltd]. Base stamped "MAPPIN & WEBB / 2 QUEEN VICTORIA ST. / LONDON".



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The Pembrokeshire Imperial Yeomanry 1 year 4 months ago #91630

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A half-bottle of champagne, no doubt similar to that administered to Trooper L G Bullin while in hospital with enteric. In the collection of the National Army Museum, London.


NAM. 1974-11-16-1

Half bottle of Champagne supplied to hospitals for the sick and wounded, 1900.
Made by Dagonet at Fils, 1900.

“One surprising treatment supplied by the War Office during the Boer War (1899-1902) was champagne, which was highly-regarded for medicinal use: one sergeant wrote home 'I have had 5 bottles of champagne this week, but they have taken the champagne off & put me on 2 bottles of double stout a day'!”



© National Army Museum

“Dagonet & Fils’ Champagne was selected by His Majesty’s War Office for use in the Hospitals and for the sick and wounded soldiers in the Boer War in South Africa”.

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The Pembrokeshire Imperial Yeomanry 1 year 4 months ago #91631

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Neville - I misled you regarding Gordon-Roberts age, he was 29 when he attested.

"Your" sergeant was short-changed at 5 bottles of Champagne a week. The Wardmaster at Maitland Hospital wrote a letter of sympathy to a family member of Llewellyn Gayton Bullin. He had this to say about his treatment:

"I can assure you that everything possible was done for him. There was not a wish of his which was not gratified. Whatever he fancied, either to eat or to drink, he had. It was quite a common occurrence for him to fancy something like fish, and a mounted orderly would be sent into Cape Town for it. He had four bottles of champagne every day for the last eighteen or nineteen days."

From what I can make out he was originally withdrawn from the field suffering from rheumatic fever and there seems to be some doubt about whether he died in hospital of "heart failure" or enteric fever. When he attested on 8th February 1900 he gave his age as 20 years and 1 month. He was born on 18th September 1882 making him 17 years and 4 months old when he attested and 18 years and 1 month when he died. He was a "splendid" horseman because his father owned a Livery Stable. He was rejected when he volunteered for the Glamorganshire Imperial Yeomanry, presumably because they knew his true age.
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