TOPIC:

I have downloaded the papers of five of the 111th. Four enlisted in Doncaster between 25th Feb & 1st March 1901, the fifth in Retford (Notts) on 4th March 1901. Only one claimed previous military experience in a militia btn or vol company attached to the KOYLI. The departure date for SA is not given for one but the other four set sail on 23rd March 1901. Don't know the port they left from or when and where they arrived in SA.

In March 1902 Crabbe claimed they came under his command on 21st May 1901 as "absolute recruits". He also claimed they left his command on 31st December 1901:



Four days before the end of the war Capper claimed they had been with him for 5 months:



I am 99% certain all of this time they were in CC. According to both commanders they did a good job but somebody had obviously had a pop at them.

Their first death occurred on 17th June 1901 at Maraisburg, CC and the man involved received all 3 state clasps according to the MR. In fact the only one who didn't was an officer who joined them when they were already out in SA. The report appears in a newspaper of 21st June 1901 and he received the CC & Tr clasps but not the OFS.

They suffered 4 deaths, 23 were invalided home early, 5 joined other units and those left standing returned to the UK in August 1902. All the deaths and reported woundings occurred in CC and the two deaths by disease occured at the IY hospital at Deelfontein, There was also a IY Hospital at Elandsfontein.

Was Birkin the man who paid for a Boer War Memorial in Nottingham? Are his writings accessible?

Birkin (Lieut.-Col.R. L.)-History Of The 3rd Regiment Imperial Yeomanry 28-1-00 to 6-8-02
J & J Vice
Nottingham
1906

Steve - you previously wrote "According to Birkin the 111th were formed from excess members of the 9th at the beginning of May 1901 at Elandsfontein, so were transiently in the Transvaal before entraining for De Aar on 4th May."

The 9th were first wave and left South Africa on 8th May 1901. So if some of them did join the 11th (second wave) they would have been those who opted for further and continuous service in the IY. Their 1901 Medal Roll shows some of their officers stayed on (but does not give their new unit) but none of the rank and file stayed on. Some did re-enlist when back home with other IY companies and returned to SA later. Similarly the notes on the 1901 Medal Roll of the 111th do not indicate any of them had seen previous service with the 9th. As Birkin and their Medal Roll both say they were at Elandsfontein and the second half of April and first half of May 1901 is the only time they were not in Cape Colony I am happy on the location and date Birkin gives but not convinced on the 111th numbers being swelled by members of the 9th. I suspect the only way to prove it is to examine 120ish sets of paperwork!!

David.

Hi David.

My name is Paul, not Steve, but I think you were addressing me. We are at cross-purposes here, the confusion arises from the reformation of the 3rd IY from the new yeomanry draft in April 1901. I did not mean to suggest that men of the original 9th were transferred to the 111th but men from the new 9th certainly were. On page 69 Birkin writes

At Fourteen Streams the trekking of the original 3rd Regiment practically came to a close. The drafts for the reforming of the new Regiment were now arriving, and the men of the old prepared for home.
On April 17th , the original 3rd with the new drafts entrained from Warrenton for De Aar, from which place the new Regiment was ordered to commence its operations in Cape Colony. The men were divided into 2 camps-the one homeward bound, and the other preparing for the work in front of it with Colonel Birkin in command of the Regiment and Major Edwards 2nd in command.
On April 28th, 1901, the new men entrained for Graaff Reinett, there to be formed into Squadrons. The men of the old Regiment remained at De Aar until May 5th.They entrained for Capetown, and on the 7th May embarked on the Mongolian for home. Reaching Southampton on June 10th, each squadron was despatched to its own headquarters, where they were disbanded.

The 9th Squadron was then reformed from the New Imperial Yeomanry as were the other squadrons of the 3rd Regiment, ie the 10th, 11th, 12th, 66th, 109th, and 111th.

Birkin continues on page 124 as follows

As already related the 109th Squadron was formed at Elandsfontein in consequence of the unwieldy size of the 9th Squadron. For the same reason the 111th was at this time also formed from the same redundant source.

I hope this clarifies it a bit, You are quite right that the men of the original 9th did not transfer to the the 111th but the men of the NEW 9th, 109th and the 111th were both drawn from men of the 2nd contingent in South Africa, probably before the were officially allocated to the new 9th.

I agree that the service of the 111th men in the Transvaal at Elandsfontein was very transient but presumably deemed sufficient for the clasp.

Regards
Paul

Paul - apologies for getting confused with your name.

Have done a bit more research and the first wave of the 3rd Battalion IY consisted of the 9th, 10th, 11th & 12th Companies. They all sailed out together to S Africa on the Winifredian leaving Liverpool on 28th January 1900.

Having examined the paperwork for 26 (20%) of the 111th Company, all bar one enlisted in Doncaster in February & early March 1901 and all bar two set sail from England on 23rd March 1901. The exceptions attested in Retford (Notts) and there were two stragglers who left England a week later than the rest. So I have a bit of a problem with the second para you quote from the writings of Birkin.

Based on newspaper reports Birkin went out as a Lieutenant in the 12th Company and by mid-April 1901 he had been promoted to Major and become second in command of the 3rd Battalion. On 7th May 1901 he was made a temporary Lieutenant Colonel and took over command of the 3rd Battalion (I presume the previous commander returned home with the first wave).

The 111th appear to have only been under his command for a very short while as on 21st May 1901 they came under the command of Colonel Crabbe and then Colonel Capper who commanded two of the 16 flying/mobile columns operating in Cape Colony in the second half of 1901 and the first half of 1902.

Based on the unit information on this site the 66th Company didn’t come into the picture until 1902 when they were transferred to the 3rd Battalion from the 16th Battalion

Regards, David.

The new 66th IY were formed in March 1901 and were an entirely separate and different unit to the original 66th, who although a Yorkshire unit were part of the 16th Battalion and who returned home in early May 1901. The new 66th were always part of the 3rd Regiment and saw much service in the OFS in1901 chasing Herzog and Kritzinger. It is not correct to state that they did not come into the picture until 1902.

Birkin was in overall administrative command of the 3rd IY from May 1901 but not attached to individual squadrons during this time. Here is a nice photo of the Headquarters Staff of the 3rd Regiment .



Which part of my second paragraph do you have a problem with? I do not dispute what you say regarding the place of enlistment of the men of the 111th but they were not allocated to the new squadron until after they arrived in South Africa. I would strongly suggest you try to obtain a copy of Birkin's book which is a comprehensive record of the doings of all the squadrons of the 3rd IY and includes nominal rolls.