Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC:

"Frae Scots tae Scots” – 20,000 tins of tobacco for the troops 3 months 3 weeks ago #98488

  • Moranthorse1
  • Moranthorse1's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 1066
  • Thank you received: 968
Neville,
Absolutely incredible how they have remained together!
Steve

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

"Frae Scots tae Scots” – 20,000 tins of tobacco for the troops 1 month 1 week ago #99598

  • General Gordon 1948
  • General Gordon 1948's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Fresh recruit
  • Fresh recruit
  • Posts: 19
  • Thank you received: 14
Hi Neville,
Further to this post and just to add more doubt . I have found a further example of a F&J Smith card with the tin. I found a example in the exhibition catalogue for The recent War Hats exhibition sent to me by Professor Peter Doyle.
I also contacted a expert / dealer in cigarette cards regarding the date for the un-marked medal series by F&J Smith, he assures me that it was 1902!. The last comment shows some doubt on the card being issued with the tin , but possible indicate that it had been added by the recipient during its life.
Malcolm
The following user(s) said Thank You: Neville_C

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

"Frae Scots tae Scots” – 20,000 tins of tobacco for the troops 1 month 1 week ago #99599

  • Neville_C
  • Neville_C's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1849
  • Thank you received: 3059
Hi Malcolm,

Very interesting.

A 1902 date for the cards seems very odd to me, as the Transvaal Star was definitely a 1900 imagining of what the South African War medal might look like.

It seems highly unlikely that F&J Smith would have issued this card once the actual design of the QSA was known (Feb 1901). They were clearly a very patriotic firm, and surely wouldn’t have got the design of one of the most recognisable medals of the time wrong. Soldiers who had been awarded the medal would have been appalled by such an error!

The description on the back of the Transvaal Star card implies that it was issued before any war medals had been presented: “This handsome medal WILL BE GIVEN to the British and Colonial soldiers, both Regulars and Volunteers, who fought in the Boer war”. The title of the card, “Transvaal War 1899-1900” similarly suggests that it was printed at a time when there was a misplaced belief that the war would be over by the end of 1900. Given this, it seems that the text on the back of the card was undoubtedly written in 1900.

Beyond a general acceptance amongst collectors and dealers that this set was issued in 1902, is there any hard evidence that the cards were printed that year? It would also be interesting to know which came first, the numbered or the unnumbered set.

It is worth adding that the Transvaal Star card is the last in the set (No 50), and that the medals are numbered in chronological order. In other words, when printed, the Transvaal Star was the most recent British award (not the QSA or KSA as would be expected in a 1902 set).

I think the fact that you have now come across another tin with an F&J Smith card adds weight to the idea that they were indeed included with the gift.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

"Frae Scots tae Scots” – 20,000 tins of tobacco for the troops 1 month 1 week ago #99602

  • Neville_C
  • Neville_C's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1849
  • Thank you received: 3059
Here we go. A publication that included chromolithographs of the fifty medals featured in the F&J Smith Medal Series was printed by the tobacco company in time for Christmas 1900.



The Regiment, 22nd December 1900

..
Attachments:
The following user(s) said Thank You: General Gordon 1948

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

"Frae Scots tae Scots” – 20,000 tins of tobacco for the troops 1 month 1 week ago #99609

  • General Gordon 1948
  • General Gordon 1948's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Fresh recruit
  • Fresh recruit
  • Posts: 19
  • Thank you received: 14
Hi Neville,
That's most interesting, From my enquiries with card collectors and dealer's they indicated that F&J Smith were the first company to
insert cards in cigarette packets, also that the unnumbered cards predated the numbered series.
Your news paper cutting their fore blows that information out of the water.
So I think it is more probable that a card was inserted and it was of the numbered series. The one note, the cards depict only one face of the medal and later cards had the obvers picture printed below the face of the medal.
Malc

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

"Frae Scots tae Scots” – 20,000 tins of tobacco for the troops 1 month 1 week ago #99629

  • General Gordon 1948
  • General Gordon 1948's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Fresh recruit
  • Fresh recruit
  • Posts: 19
  • Thank you received: 14
Hi Neville,
I have just obtained a nice Transvaal War star the same as your card but on the reverse it states that it was issued in tins of tobacco. Also it says it was issued by F&J smith which would place it around 1900, with in a couple of years they had be bought out and I believe the cards state presented by Imperial tobacco.
I still have not found a definitive description or example of the pipe so I will be sticking with both the pipe and the card until proven otherwise.
Malc
The following user(s) said Thank You: Neville_C

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: djb
Time to create page: 0.380 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum