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Murray's Horse turned into Murray's Scouts 1 year 7 months ago #89276

  • Arthur R
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To recap and add a bit more :

ROXBY : no evidence yet found that he served in the war or even lived to adulthood. He may have died in infancy or childhood in the 1880s or early '90s, in which case an official death certificate wouldn't have been compulsory (not required at the Cape until 1895 and in the Transvaal until 1901). There might be an entry in a cemetery register somewhere, and nothing more.

MARY : as she died in the Transvaal before 1901, an official death certificate would not have been compulsory. Again, perhaps just an entry in a cemetery register.

COLIN : a resident of the SA Republic, served in the SAR forces (I'm not sure how much choice he might have had in the matter) and was taken prisoner in 1900. I wonder if he later applied for the Anglo-Boere Oorlog Medalje.

Incidentally, the Archives in Pretoria have two files relating to charges laid against a prisoner of war named Colin Baker, who "disposed of property which belonged to the Swaziland Corporation". And there's this information about Collin (two Ls) Baker from Wolwerand :
www2.lib.uct.ac.za/mss/bccd/Person/159427/Collin_Baker/ Same person?

WILLIAM ANDREW was evidently in Rhodesia in the early 1890s. I wonder if he served in either of the early campaigns for which a medal was issued.

Unclear if he was the same person as William Andrews Baker who went insolvent at the Cape in 1881, and was prosecuted for theft in 1884.

Also unclear if this William Andrews Baker was the same person of that name who advertised in Wellington (NZ) in 1878 that he was unable to pay his creditors; who was prosecuted three times in three different towns in 1879 and 1880 for issuing worthless cheques and served two short prison sentences; and who was sought by the NZ police in 1897 for a similar offence in Masterton NZ. In 1880, his occupation was given as "brewer and native interpreter" his date of birth as 1851 and born in NZ. This petty criminal can't have been the same person as William Andrew, who was born in England in 1852 and was a land surveyor.
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Arthur

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William Andrew-s Baker insolvency New Brighton Hotel, Woodstock Cape 1892 1 year 7 months ago #89288

  • Pietrasanta
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Hello, just in case you were still wondering: My great grandfather, William Andrew-s Baker is the one and same who purchased the New Brighton Hotel in Woodstock because I have now found, in the inventory done by the insolvency assessors, a note saying that the linen belonged to Mrs Mary Balneavis Baker. So this is good enough for me to know for sure that although the documentation says Andrews instead of Andrew, this is my ancestor.
Thanks a lot....

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Murray's Horse turned into Murray's Scouts 1 year 7 months ago #89291

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That certainly seems conclusive. Thank you for the feedback.
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Arthur

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William Andrew Baker and his son Colin Balneavis Baker 1 year 7 months ago #89302

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Hello Arthur... Some more clarification:

COLIN : a resident of the SA Republic, served in the SAR forces (I'm not sure how much choice he might have had in the matter) and was taken prisoner in 1900. I HAVE NO IDEA IF HE HAD A CHOICE OR NOT,DETERMINING ON WHICH SIDE HE FOUGHT. BUT GIVEN HE COMES FROM A VERY LONG LINE OF SOLDIERS,I AM NOT SURPRISED HE FOUGHT. HIS ANCESTORS INCLUDED:

Major Walter Headland Valentine (Valentine) Baker uncle
Lt-Gen Sir Henry Balneavis II CMG, KH, his mother's side of the family
Lt-Colonel Henry Balneavis I formerly Balneaves mother's side of the family
Lt-Colonel Henry Colin Balneavis III his mother's side of the family

I wonder if he later applied for the Anglo-Boere Oorlog Medalje. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN BY IF HE LATER APPLIED FOR THE ANGLO-BOERE OORLONG MADLJIE?

Incidentally, the Archives in Pretoria have two files relating to charges laid against a prisoner of war named Colin Baker, who "disposed of property which belonged to the Swaziland Corporation". I AM VERY VERY CURIOUS ABOUT THIS. COULD YOU PLEASE SEND ME A LINK SO THAT I CAN TAKE A LOOK MYSELF? OR A PHOTO AND ATTACH IT. MANY THANKS

And there's this information about Collin (two Ls) Baker from Wolwerand :
www2.lib.uct.ac.za/mss/bccd/Person/159427/Collin_Baker/ Same person? THIS IS DEFINITELY THE SAME PERSON, MY GREAT GRANDFATHER X 2 , SPELLED INCORRECTLY WITH 2 L'S. HE CLAIMS ON THE FORM TO BE RETURNING TO THE SAME PLACE, ELANDSHEUVEL, WHERE HE THEN MARRIES ON 28 JULY 1903 ANNA MAGDALENA SOFIA ROOS.

WILLIAM ANDREW was evidently in Rhodesia in the early 1890s. CAN YOU SEND ME THE LINK SHOWING ME THIS PLEASE?

I wonder if he served in either of the early campaigns for which a medal was issued. I HAVE NO IDEA. HE ARRIVED IN SOUTH AFRICA AROUND 1881. EXCUSE MY IGNORANCE, 'WHAT EITHER OF THE EARLY CAMPAIGNS' DO YOU MEAN?

Unclear if he was the same person as William Andrews Baker who went insolvent at the Cape in 1881, and was prosecuted for theft in 1884. YES. I BELIEVE THIS IS THE ONE AND SAME PERSON.

Also unclear if this William Andrews Baker was the same person of that name who advertised in Wellington (NZ) in 1878 that he was unable to pay his creditors; who was prosecuted three times in three different towns in 1879 and 1880 for issuing worthless cheques and served two short prison sentences; I DON'T KNOW. CAN YOU SEND ME LINKS TO THIS INFORMATION PLEASE? I AM KEEN TO SEE THE PROSECUTIONS IN DIFFERENT TOWN
I KNOW HE MARRIED 17 June 1876.
I KNOW THAT ON 7 Dec 1877 HE WAS APPOINTED AS PRIVATE SECRETARY TO HON MR SHEENAN ON 17 DECEMBER 1877.

In 1880 he returned to the Gore district WHERE HE ELOPED AND MARRIED MARY BALNEAVIS SEVERAL YEARS BEFORE<, to survey the hill part of GORE.
SHORTLY AFTER 1880 HE WENT TO SOUTH AFRICA AS I HAVE HIM DOCUMENTED FROM 1881 SIGNING A BANK MORTGAGE LOAN TO BUY THE NEW BRIGHTON HOTEL IN WOODSTOCK.

who was sought by the NZ police in 1897 for a similar offence in Masterton, NZ. In 1880, his occupation was given as "brewer and native interpreter" his date of birth as 1851 and born in NZ. BORN IN NEW ZEALAND IS INCORRECT. HE WAS BORN IN THE UK. DATE OF BIRTH IS 1852.
This petty criminal can't have been the same person as William Andrew, who was born in England in 1852 and was a land surveyor. I FEEL THIS IS THE SAME PERSON:

I do so very much appreciate your help here. Thank you for your time and energy.

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Murray's Horse turned into Murray's Scouts 1 year 7 months ago #89318

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Pietrasanta wrote: I wonder if he later applied for the Anglo-Boere Oorlog Medalje. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN BY IF HE LATER APPLIED FOR THE ANGLO-BOERE OORLONG MADLJIE?

The Anglo-Boere Oorlog Medalje was the campaign medal for those who fought on the Boer side. It was instituted by the SA government in 1920, and veterans who wanted it had to apply for it. Having now looked at the searchable list of recipients on this website ( www.angloboerwar.com/medals-and-awards/b...8-anglo-boer-oorlog0 I see that his name doesn't appear.

Pietrasanta wrote: Incidentally, the Archives in Pretoria have two files relating to charges laid against a prisoner of war named Colin Baker, who "disposed of property which belonged to the Swaziland Corporation". I AM VERY VERY CURIOUS ABOUT THIS. COULD YOU PLEASE SEND ME A LINK SO THAT I CAN TAKE A LOOK MYSELF? OR A PHOTO AND ATTACH IT.

The Archives website is : www.national.archsrch.gov.za . The specific files are :

SOPOW 17 : file PR/A1402/01 : "Charge against prisoner of war Colin Baker"

PMO 16 : file PM1143/01 : "Mr Colin Baker, prisoner of war, disposed of property which belonged to the Swaziland Corporation"

Pietrasanta wrote: WILLIAM ANDREW was evidently in Rhodesia in the early 1890s. CAN YOU SEND ME THE LINK SHOWING ME THIS PLEASE?

I deduced it from the report in the NZ Herald (07.05.1894) that he had returned to Auckland, had been trading in South Africa "but lost all his property through a raid of the Zulus previous to the war with Lobengula", and had "made his way from the Zambesi to Zanzibar". The war with Lobengula was in 1893.

Pietrasanta wrote: I wonder if he served in either of the early campaigns for which a medal was issued. I HAVE NO IDEA. HE ARRIVED IN SOUTH AFRICA AROUND 1881. EXCUSE MY IGNORANCE, 'WHAT EITHER OF THE EARLY CAMPAIGNS' DO YOU MEAN?

The British SA Company issued a medal to members of the Pioneer Column which occupied Matabeleland and Mashonaland in 1890, and re-issued it for service in the campaign in Matebeleland in 1893. The photo of William's brother Walter's medals ( www.zealandiamedals.co.nz/product-page/s...rare-1890-medal-nzer ) shows that he received the medal; I wondered if William, having been in the territory at that time, had also taken up arms.

Pietrasanta wrote: Also unclear if this William Andrews Baker was the same person of that name who advertised in Wellington (NZ) in 1878 that he was unable to pay his creditors; who was prosecuted three times in three different towns in 1879 and 1880 for issuing worthless cheques and served two short prison sentences; I DON'T KNOW. CAN YOU SEND ME LINKS TO THIS INFORMATION PLEASE? I AM KEEN TO SEE THE PROSECUTIONS IN DIFFERENT TOWN


Evening Post 02.02.1878 : paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP1...s+Baker&snippet=true

Hawkes Bay Herald 10.03.1879 : paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/HBH...cHBT%2cHBTRIB%2cHBWT

Auckland Star 24.01.1880 : paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS1...s+Baker&snippet=true

NZ Herald 26.01.1880 : paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH...s+Baker&snippet=true

NZ Police Gazette 25.10.1880 : paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/periodicals/ne...azette/1880/08/25/10

NZ Police Gazette 22.09.1880 : paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/periodicals/ne...gazette/1880/09/22/8

Wairarapa Daily Times 12.01.1898 : paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WDT...s+Baker&snippet=true

NZ Police Gazette 19.01.1898 :
paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/periodicals/NZ...1-01-1877&title=NZPG

NZ Police Gazette 13.04.1898
paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/periodicals/NZ...1-01-1877&title=NZPG

NZ Police Gazette 03.10.1906
paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/periodicals/NZ...1-01-1877&title=NZPG
Regards
Arthur
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Murray's Horse turned into Murray's Scouts 1 year 7 months ago #89319

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Arthur - thanks for the link to Walter's medals. Now. knowing he shortened his name to Major Valentine Baker, I am finding quite a few references to him in the Birmingham newspapers of the 1930's. This is his death notice in the Birmingham Mail of 16th May 1940.

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