TOPIC:

Hi Frank,
I am aware of the barbed wire placed in the fords but not that the river was dammed. Surely if that was the case there would be a place where there was no water?
It was Bridle drift that the Irish Brigade was supposed to ford the Tugela by and apparently the Inniskillings were actually close to it when ordered away by Hart. One of many of his blunders.
He actually drilled the Brigade for half an hour before setting off to cross the Tugela. He advanced the Brigade in close order. He ignored 3 gallopers sent to warn him of the entrenched Boers across the river not to mention gallopers also sent by Buller to tell him he wasnt supposed to be in the loop.
I believe the battle in all lasted about 9 hours and the Irish Brigade suffered 500 casualties....
"C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre: c'est de la folie" springs to mind.

regards Iain

Frank Kelley wrote: Hello Iain,
I believe the enemy had not only dammed the river, but, had also placed barbed wire entanglements in the river bed.
More than one source refers, Bennet Burleigh springs to mind!
Hart's objective was, from memory, Bridle Drift, which is upstream from the "Loop" and not actually in it.
We are not talking about a skirmish here, we are talking about bloody carnage "a la" Magersfontein! with the advantage (for the enemy!) of being able to bring enfilading fire from three sides onto the Irish Brigade.
I have read at least two accounts, one from the dairy of a private in the Inniskilling's who left me in no doubt that the fight went on for several hours.
Regards Frank

iaindh wrote: Hi Frank,
I am aware of the barbed wire placed in the fords but not that the river was dammed. Surely if that was the case there would be a place where there was no water?
It was Bridle drift that the Irish Brigade was supposed to ford the Tugela by and apparently the Inniskillings were actually close to it when ordered away by Hart. One of many of his blunders.
He actually drilled the Brigade for half an hour before setting off to cross the Tugela. He advanced the Brigade in close order. He ignored 3 gallopers sent to warn him of the entrenched Boers across the river not to mention gallopers also sent by Buller to tell him he wasnt supposed to be in the loop.
I believe the battle in all lasted about 9 hours and the Irish Brigade suffered 500 casualties....
"C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre: c'est de la folie" springs to mind.

regards Iain

Frank Kelley wrote: Hello Iain,
I believe the enemy had not only dammed the river, but, had also placed barbed wire entanglements in the river bed.
More than one source refers, Bennet Burleigh springs to mind!
Hart's objective was, from memory, Bridle Drift, which is upstream from the "Loop" and not actually in it.
We are not talking about a skirmish here, we are talking about bloody carnage "a la" Magersfontein! with the advantage (for the enemy!) of being able to bring enfilading fire from three sides onto the Irish Brigade.
I have read at least two accounts, one from the dairy of a private in the Inniskilling's who left me in no doubt that the fight went on for several hours.
Regards Frank

iaindh wrote: Good morning Mike,

a nice group and I see the GSWA medal in there; presumably the recipient settled in SA?

Iain

Hi Iain.....

No he returned home to serve in the Black Watch in WW1....

Mike

Hi Iain,
It was not possible to recieve the 1914 Star for service in German South West Africa, members of the Union forces got the 1914-15 Star, regardless of the actual date they they crossed the border.
GSWA was included in Theatre 4 before the 31st of December 1915 and after that it was referred to as Theatre 4 b, France and Belgium was Theatre 1 and 1 b respectively.
Regards Frank

QSAMIKE wrote:

iaindh wrote: Good morning Mike,

a nice group and I see the GSWA medal in there; presumably the recipient settled in SA?

Iain

Hi Iain.....

No he returned home to serve in the Black Watch in WW1....

Mike

Hi Frank,
I've just found that out; I originally looked at the ribbon and thought it was unique to the 14-15 star, I didnt realise the 1914 star used the same ribbon...

But thanks and regards, Iain

Frank Kelley wrote: Hi Iain,
It was not possible to recieve the 1914 Star for service in German South West Africa, members of the Union forces got the 1914-15 Star, regardless of the actual date they they crossed the border.
GWSA was included in Theatre 4 before the 31st of December 1915 and after that it was referred to as Theatre 4 b, France and Belgium was Theatre 1 and 1 b respectively.
Regards Frank

Hi Frank,

I find it very strange that neither Conan Doyle nor Packenham make mention of the river being dammed but it would not suprise me if it were as Mnr Botha was a very clever and cunning opponent!

regards, Iain

Frank Kelley wrote:

iaindh wrote: Hi Frank,
I am aware of the barbed wire placed in the fords but not that the river was dammed. Surely if that was the case there would be a place where there was no water?
It was Bridle drift that the Irish Brigade was supposed to ford the Tugela by and apparently the Inniskillings were actually close to it when ordered away by Hart. One of many of his blunders.
He actually drilled the Brigade for half an hour before setting off to cross the Tugela. He advanced the Brigade in close order. He ignored 3 gallopers sent to warn him of the entrenched Boers across the river not to mention gallopers also sent by Buller to tell him he wasnt supposed to be in the loop.
I believe the battle in all lasted about 9 hours and the Irish Brigade suffered 500 casualties....
"C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre: c'est de la folie" springs to mind.

regards Iain