TOPIC:

Here are a few snaps of the naming of the group.

David (Smethwick) - I too at first thought that 11182 RHS was the same fellow but my chap didn't earn a Rhodesia clasp to his medal and there are too many variables at play. Granted both Smith's were born in Cahir, Tipperary in and about 1880 but they resided in different houses at the same point in time.

Simon (Bicolboy59) - I think you might have something there although his Army List entry makes no reference to service in the ORCP - it is worth further enquiry though.

David (Biggins) - thanks David, although not the remit of this Forum, I would like to find his IGS NWF medal rolls as well as that for the Delhi Durbar - a trip to the British Library might be the only solution. India Army records are notoriously hard to track down.

Thank you all for your contributions and please keep looking. Hammersley Smith was a Big Wig in the Leicester area in later life where there are many photos of him as the Chairman of the Insurance Society attending functions. He is sporting his CBE in many of these photos. Does anyone live near Leicester that would be able and willing to visit their archives and take better quality scans of these photos? I would remunerate their expenses.

Regards

Rory

Rory,

Are you happy with the naming on the QSA? The character spacing is larger than normal?

It is a worry David which is why I want to find the medal roll. I suspect it may be a later issue?

Rory - with due respect I am not convinced that you can abandon 11182 Ralph Henry Smith as your man.

Ralph Henry Hammersley-Smith's father spent his life as plain Ralph Edward Henry Smith. I would say the Hammersley was an affectation derived from his grandmother's maiden name and it was not adopted by any of his 4 siblings.

He had adopted the Hammersley by October 1901 when his transfer from the IY to the ASC was reported in the newspapers and we know 1182's service with the IY ended in June 1901 although the reason given does not fit with him then serving in the ASC, but then mistakes were made and you cannot always believe what you read.

Johnstown House at Glasnevin was a veritable pile but no longer standing and perhaps it was a temporary/short-lived abode of the family unrecorded elsewhere.

Then we come to the medals - I note the auctioneers were a bit concerned about one of them noting "1914-15 Star (name removed, possibly a replacement)". David has commented on the engraving of the QSA and, as I am no medal expert perhaps I should not comment further, but the British War Medal engraving looks a bit dodgy to me with "HAMMER" looking like a separate word from the "SL", gap, "EY". I wonder if the medals suffered some loss and there was a reconstruction job done at some time and the "Rhodesia" clasp was overlooked by the resurrecter.

Finally as you say you cannot find him as Hammersley-Smith on an IY medal roll - I would say because he enrolled in the IY as plain Smith and that was the information available to the person who drew up the medal roll who still managed to get his initials wrong.

Regards, David.

A couple of observations :

1 - 11182 RH Smith's service, as shown on the military history sheet, was not enough to qualify for the KSA. It records less than 18 months service, and departure from SA before 31.05.1902.

2 - The Archives in Bloemfontein apparently have a file (ref PMP 10 : no 612) for 'Ralph Henry H. Smith' of the Provisional Mounted Police. Evidently the same chap whom Simon found in the War Office records. However, the Archives file is dated 1900, which overlaps with 11182's service in the IY.

3 - Is it possible that the QSA and KSA were originally named as 'R.H.H. Smith', and he had them re-engraved after modifying his name to 'R.H. Hammersley-Smith'?

Don't think for a moment that I am disregarding your comments in respect of "11182" David. I had downloaded his IY papers a few days ago and was awaiting confirmation from the Archivist at his old school, St Edwards in Oxford. This has now come through this evening and they confirm that he enlisted in the Irish Hunt IY in February 1900 ala "11182" - I have also obtained a Who's Who entry for him which confirms this. I Have also tracked down his father and family in the 1901 and 1911 Census. They lived at the Mall House in Cahir, Tipperary. Ralph Junior was, of course, not there. Having established that the IY papers we located are indeed his what now needs to be solved is what happened to his Rhodesia clasp - to bring this matter to its conclusion we need to find his ASC QSA medal roll.

Apropos the naming regime on his medals - the QSA looks to be later issue naming i.e. WWI - I am perfectly satisfied that it is legitimate. The naming on the BWM is also fine as far as I am concerned. I don't think it's a composite or made-up group - merely one where the QSA is a later issue. I can only hypothesise that this is related to the IY medal roll and the vanishing Rhodesia clasp - nowhere in his service papers, Army Lists etc. is mention made of service in Rhodesia. The only Boer War service mentioned is operations in the Cape Colony and Orange Free State - the clasps that appear on his QSA.

Regards

Rory