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Hi David,

Many thanks again for the updated info - very helpful. Apologies for initial confusion over medal rolls. I thought the citations were for Pvte Haynes (I was rushing reading on the phone).

It’s great you have the confirmation of the Oct 1899 date - that would still make the relationship possible. Also, I think the 1st RDF may have had a Calvary section - for sure Warburg was a Cavalry barrack. That’s all conjecture, what we now know is the relationship was possible, which ties up with the DNA data.

Any thoughts on the Joyce vs Caddis surnames? I can’t see way to unpick this. I don’t have a single Caddis match on ancestry DNA database nor do I have many Joyce matches (a small handful). It’s of course possible both surnames are spurious! That’s a lot of lengths to go to move away from the past or try to establish a better future their kids.

Do you have any information on the movements of the 18th Hussars between 1893 and 1899? What would his training have been like and locations? I saw the Gravesend location was a port location, was it also a garrison where the Hussars were stationed?

Alice (the mother) appears to have been working at East Hall Murston (just east of sittingbourne) and the Milton Work house was just to the north of sittingbourne (it’s not the same Milton immediately adjacent to Gravesend). I’m wondering how they met. Alice is originally from Mountnessing in Essex, which is a stones throw from Warley Barracks. I’m clutching at straws a bit trying to establish the connections!

Is there any way to estimate the birthdate? At would age could recruits join? Is 18, would give a ballpark DOB of 1875 latest.

Thanks for all your help!

Mark.

Mark,

He is commemorated on this monument in Ladysmith: www.angloboerwar.com/forum/17-memorials-...ment-ladysmith#47589

Mark,

Not quite what you are after. This book relates the story of the 18th Hussars in South Africa.

www.angloboerwar.com/books/27-burnett-18...sars-in-south-africa

Best wishes
David

Hi David,

Many thanks for this - it’s a fantastic resource and it was in the appendix that I first caught sight of Pvte D Caddis. I’d previously been looking for Joyce and wasn’t thorough in looking through the entire list. I only saw the Caddis entry yesterday and that’s what prompted my original post above. As the other David said, the balance of probabilities looks like this is the right person. Still so many questions to answer! Am I really Mark Joyce or Mark Caddis!? Or something else! At least this is a strong new lead after years of looking for Dennis Caddis Joyce!

Cheers,

Mark.

Mark - All I can suggest with the Caddis/Joyce confusion is that it wasn't uncommon for men to enlist under an assumed name for various reasons so that might well be a possibility. 18 or 19 are very common ages for army recruits although recruits also joined at a younger or older age. He may have lied about his age when he enlisted and amended his name to make him less traceable and reduce the chances of him being kicked out for being under age. That's really just speculation but that sort of thing did happen.

I've had a look on Findmypast's birth index but there's no Dennis Joyce listed between 1867 and 1884. 1867 seems far too early (aged 26 on enlistment) and 1884 clearly too late. The 1881 census shows a Denis Joyce aged 13 and born in Ireland living with his mother Margaret at 4 Lion Court. This would explain not being in the England & Wales birth index but his age on enlistment would still be 25 which is not impossible but certainly a bit unusual. There's no Dennis Joyce in the age range born 1865-1875 on the 1891 census

Haynes's service papers show him serving in the UK until September 1894 when he went to India until October 1898 when he went to South Africa. The regiment was based at Lucknow in 1896. Eight signallers and two men attached to the Army Veterinary Department were awarded the India General Service Medal with clasp Relief of Chitral but otherwise no medals were awarded to the regiment for service in India. (I've never seen any of these 10 on the market). It would not be unreasonable to assume that your GGF's movement were much the same as Haynes's although given your GF's date of birth it appears he may well have returned to the UK and gone to South Africa the following year rather than with the main body of the regiment. He would not necessarily have joined at Hounslow but without his attestation papers we just don't know.

Canterbury was an important location for cavalry units but I'm not sure abiout Gravesend.

David

Hi David,

Many thanks for the reply and apologies for the delay in responding.

Your insights about the Joyce/Caddis confusion are great and very plausible. I looked again at my ancestry DNA results and see there is not a single Caddis in there, either as a match or mentioned in any of my matches member trees or connections. However, there are a lot of Joyce's as a common surname in member trees. The balance of probability therefore appears to be that Joyce is the real surname and that Dennis dropped Joyce when he joined up and selected Caddis. Not sure where from as his name on the other birth certificate is listed as "Dennis Charles Joyce". No idea where the name Caddis came from!

I'm totally indebted to your knowledge and time taken to respond to my questions and theories. Pehaps I'm looking for a "Dennis Charles Joyce" born around 1875. Perhaps the Dennis Joyce on the 1881 Ireland census is the right one. Would need to find a DNA link to be sure.