TOPIC:

Hello Shannon,
In an earlier post you show a miniature medal group, do you have the full size medals issued by the Cape Government, War Office and Union Government, if yes you can put a end to all the speculation here and now by looking at what it says on the rims.
Interestingly, I could not see a Minns or Smithyman on the Cape GSM medal roll on here.
I'm sure Audrey will get copies of all his WW1 service papers that exist today without any great problems, am still intriqued by that first photo!
Regards Frank

Frank,
We are thinking along the same lines (I have been learning about medals today and have named all the medals which was a lot of fun).

We are in good luck.

They are kept by my mother's cousin - another grandson of Fred M Smithyman. We are having dinner with him on Saturday night and have asked him to bring them to dinner. At this point, all we have is the picture I shared.

We thought they were all WW1 medals but have now learned otherwise. I am intrigued to see what is on the Cape of Good Hope Service Medal as I googled the rolls available online and found neither Smithyman nor Minns.

Ah, the intrigue.

I shall update when we have seen the medals.

Shannon

Hello Shannon,
I'm pleased you will be able to put an end to the speculation regarding units on saturday.
He is only mentioned in WO372/24 in respect of his MID and MSM, both for his WW1 service, he appears in the Commander in Chiefs East African Force dispach of the 22nd November 1916, which was published in the London Gazette number 29933, page 1356 and he is also shown in number 31375, page 6970 in respect of his MSM.
So its over to Audrey and what ever is actually impressed on the medals!
Regards Frank.

Hi Everyone,
Well, it was a sad disappointment to find that the medals held by our relative are actually the miniatures only. Nobody is sure which of the 10 children ended up with the real ones and so they are MIA.

I have engaged Audrey to look for his 1WW records and she is hopeful of finding them.

Her comment on the Cape of Good Hope Bechuanaland medal is that, since he would have been 15 at the time, it is unlikely he served in that 1897 campaign. I would agree but for the family story of him running away to the army a few years after arriving in South Africa while being underage. He arrived at age 12 and would have been 15 at the time. The fact that there is nobody by his Real or Assumed names in those roles may mean he obtained this medal somewhere else??? Not sure what it means.

Does anyone know what the legal age for signup was in the Boer War and earlier?

Shannon

Hello Shannon,
I think the medals need to be found, you should make that a priority!
With regard to age during the Boer War, there were, in the British Army at least, a number of boys aged 14-15 etc, this was very common in both the Artillery and Cavalry.
A famous case in point would have to be young Shurlock, or more correctly, 4738 Trumpeter Shurlock 5th Royal Irish Lancers, who has been depicted, both in paintings and verse for his actions at Elandslaagte.
You certainly had many boys out on Commando with the Boer forces too.
Again good luck and I hope Audrey finds the information you are looking for.
Regards Frank