TOPIC:

Hi Iain,

Thanks, yes you are correct, that is how it happened.Darrell Hall also makes mention that Hannay dismissed his staff and charged the Laager with 50 men as he knew that this would be a suicidal mission.

Regards
Adrian

Gentlemen,
I am confident that had Lord Roberts actually been on the battlefield on the 18th of February, the whole day would have taken a differant course.
Kitchener just got carried away by the moment and let his own drive and ruthless ambition get in the way of very basic common sense, he must have thought he was back in the Sudan again!

Hello Iain,
Herbert Kitchener was very much the hard man of empire and I am sure that is how he wanted to be seen in the eyes of his enemies, but, he himself was a very complex character, he was certainly flawed in many ways, but, I would still have liked to have met him.
His brother Frank was quite similar in some ways, moreover, they were both abused as children.
I have to say that I have more respect for him than I do for the awful business men who made sure that war broke out in the first place though.
The Anglo Boer War was very much an original guerilla war but there had been others and this type of campaign continues to be fought today, but, in the nineteenth century war like this was fought from the very begining in the Peninsular and onward to the Spanish/American war in Cuba in 1895, a war in which civilians were "concentrated" into camps.

So Herbert would not be on your Christmas card list then?
Regards again Frank

iaindh wrote: Hi Adrian,

Kitchener unfortunately had no respect for human life whether British or Afrikaaner. His handling of Paardeberg where he ignored the advice of experienced commanders, rather choosing his own "tactics" and through his arrogance so many British soldiers lost their lives unnecessarily. Colonel Hannay's sacrifice summed up all.....
The amazing thing is that after Paardeberg he continued to be Lord Roberts 2IC?
I have to agree with Frank that in this war situation drastic steps were required as the British weren't winning the war. Particularly the fact that Boere commandos were surrendering when cornered, promising no further part in the war then regrouping. But then it was the original guerrilla war.
I don't believe it was anyone's intention that so many innocents should die in the concentration camps and it was again negligence by uncaring leaders, as much as so many British soldiers died an inglorious death in Bloemfontein.
It must have been hard to have lost Mothers, Grandmothers, Sisters, Aunts, generations wiped out.....

regards, Iain

capepolice wrote: Hello Iain,

I agree with you as does almost all the older generation of Afrikaaner. His farm burning and concentration camp episodes created much hate which still lingers today.

Regards
Adrian

Hi Frank,

I'm sure if Lady Roberts had been in command on that day, things would have also turned out differently.

I suppose it is possible that he thought the Boers were like the Dervishes, untrained and ill disciplined, if so he certainly underestimated them.

And you are quite right, he would not be on my Christmas card list

kind regards, Iain

Frank Kelley wrote: Gentlemen,
I am confident that had Lord Roberts actually been on the battlefield on the 18th of February, the whole day would have taken a differant course.
Kitchener just got carried away by the moment and let his own drive and ruthless ambition get in the way of very basic common sense, he must have thought he was back in the Sudan again!

Hello Iain,
I think if Lady Roberts had been in command, there may not have been a battle!
I think K, knew very well indeed, that you just don't charge Mauser's, Maxim's and Artillery with a handful of MI, he lost his head and ended up running around the field issuing orders without actually using the proper chain of command.
Kind regards Frank

iaindh wrote: Hi Frank,

I'm sure if Lady Roberts had been in command on that day, things would have also turned out differently.

I suppose it is possible that he thought the Boers were like the Dervishes, untrained and ill disciplined, if so he certainly underestimated them.

And you are quite right, he would not be on my Christmas card list

kind regards, Iain

Frank Kelley wrote: Gentlemen,
I am confident that had Lord Roberts actually been on the battlefield on the 18th of February, the whole day would have taken a differant course.
Kitchener just got carried away by the moment and let his own drive and ruthless ambition get in the way of very basic common sense, he must have thought he was back in the Sudan again!

Hi Frank,

Yes, perhaps Lady Roberts would have invited Cronje for tea and talked it though, but I'm sure She would have listened to her staff.

This post has become a K post and moved away from poor Lieutenant Moir.

kind regards, Iain

Frank Kelley wrote: Hello Iain,
I think if Lady Roberts had been in command, there may not have been a battle!
I think K, knew very well indeed, that you just don't charge Mauser's, Maxim's and Artillery with a handful of MI, he lost his head and ended up running around the field issuing orders without actually using the proper chain of command.
Kind regards Frank