TOPIC:

Gentlemen
If I might add my two bobs' worth. I agree that the pics are from the ABW period - or possibly a little later. The rifles illustrated are not .310" Martini Cadets. That pattern of rifle did not have a middle barrel band (as shown in both pics). Judging by proportions, etc., the rifles shown are of the same pattern. However, the lad in the No.1 pic has "ordered arms" so we can see a little more of his rifle. It can be seen that the rifle's receiver has a "hump"; a characteristic of Martinis made using Francotte's patents. These were in calibre .230" centre-fire (same as used in the .230" Morris Tube). These Francotte-Martinis did have a middle barrel band; as shown in both pics. Such rifles were made by BSA Co and widely supplied to various Australasian Colonies (and presumably any Empire territory who wanted them). The Francotte patents were later applied to the .310" Martini Cadets widely used in OZ. These did not have a middle barrel band.
My suggestion - if anyone is still reading this ! - is that the two excellent pics illustrate cadets from - perhaps - Ceylon. The chap in pic. no.1 is certainly very well turned out.
Regards
IL.

Hi Linneyl,

I for one am certainly still reading.

Some great information and deductive work, thank You..!

Cheerio,

Roy

Collecting/wanted ABW insignia if anyone has some spares?

My website: www.wilkinsonfscollection.com

Mike, Thanks for comments and our side-deal. Not Indian Police, both pics have same background and where on earth would an Indian get a .310 Martini Cadet ? I agree on the first, probably IY, and that's what I always thought it was. RE SWB's post, surely Town Guard for the second. But neither makes sense with the MH Cadets. A useless short range weapon. That is from experience as I've shot one many times, good only for jackrabbits and really small game. Certainly not a man stopper weapon. If fact, youngest son has two MH Cadets now and I will have him bring one for the next visit to the ranch.
SWB - Thanks for your comments as well.
Baden Powell

Linneyl, sorry I got so carried away with my blathering I forgot to agree with you on the type of Cadet Rifle. We here tend to group them all togeather (incorrectly so) and the points you make are significant. I just cannot bring myself to consider the two men as Cadets. Ceylon does make for a sensible case.
I have shot the Morris Tube in pistols only (Webley single shot and Revolver conversion) but do not recall their use in long guns.
BP

Here is another interesting photo showing weapons...... A member of the C.M.R. which never did get to SA.....
It is a studio photo with a rifle and pistol that were just used for props......

Mike

BP
Morris tubes were extensively used for training in the Martini-Henry rifle (using the .230" centre fire round) from about 1883. It is interesting to note that .230" Morris Tubes were approved for both the Lee Metford rifle (1891) and the Lee Metford carbine (1895) and later for the other .303" long arms. After 1908, the .22" RF was approved to replace the little, bottle necked .230" round. Many Morris tubes were "bushed" to take the .22"RF.
BTW BP, don't lightly dismiss the .310" Cadet. In the late 50's large numbers were made surplus here; along with the FMJ WW2 ammunition we made as an emergency measure. I used mine on a dare(!) at 300 yards on the 7.5" bullseye target (a club member bet me I could never get a bull) and - much to his chagrin - I was able to plug bulls and inners on a regular basis! True Story!
Regards
IL.