TOPIC:

Hello Fellow Forum members
I have a QSA KSA pair with renamed script with name 3229 Pte R Todd. I don't see R Todd on the name list.?
The bars on the QSA - Natal, Talana,def of Ladismith and Transvaal. KSA two bars.
Can anybody verify whether he is entitled to the bars? I'd appreciate a copy of the Medal roll for this fellow's ABW pair .
Much appreciate your help. Evyn

Hi Evyn

The bad news is that Todd didn't serve in the Boer War at all so wasn't entitled to these medals. Presumably he got hold of the pair and had them renamed to himself.

His service papers are on Findmypast which show him serving as 3229 Royal Irish Rifles. He served at Home 19/12/1891-24/4/1897, in South Africa 25/4/1897-15/4/1899, in India 16/4/1899-29/1/1904 and at Home 30/1/1904-2/2/1904.

With this service he wouldn't have been entitled to any medals at all so it looks like he awarded himself a QSA/KSA pair to be able to boast some tangible result of his servce.

It's a strange clasp combination anyway. The Royal Irish Rifles didn't serve in the Natal campaign on top of which the Natal clasp couldn't be awarded together with clasps for individual actions in Natal such as Talana or DoL.

Sorry to give you the bad news.

Regards

David

Hello David,
Thank you for this very interesting info.
Could I impose to obtain a print out of Pte Todds service record in RIR ?
Pte Todd clearly a fraud and an undercover scoundrel, actually one can only feel pity for such a poor fellow.
Being caught out so many years after one's parting this life, must in itself be considered a wannabe disaster.
I'm happy to have this little medal "memorial" to a chap who really wanted to be British / Irish veteran, and whose ego got the better of him.
He was at least well travelled, and never really in danger of loosing his life in a conflict.
There must be many more of these instances and perhaps a new field of collecting??
Many thanks, Evyn

Hi Evyn,
Interesting. You say others must have "faked" their medals. My wife inherited her GFather's medals, M J Middleton, that included a Boer war medal that we have found to be over written with his name (the quality might point to when he was in India). We have verified his WW1 service and that he also served in India in the early 1900. He joined the Somerset LI 1st Btln on 26 April 1901 (number 6013) but no record of service in SA. Yet we have a photo that shows him in uniform as a sergeant (at that time with Dorset Regt) with the Boer War Queens medal ribbon. We often wonder why he would wear the ribbon when he will have served with at least some colleagues in the SLI who were in SA (in 1914 he went back in WW1 initially with SLI, then Ox and Bucks and then Dorsets). Strange, maybe as a young man who felt he had missed the action! But no doubt made up for it in WW1.
Regards,
David

FSburgher wrote: Hello David,
Thank you for this very interesting info.
Could I impose to obtain a print out of Pte Todds service record in RIR ?
Pte Todd clearly a fraud and an undercover scoundrel, actually one can only feel pity for such a poor fellow.
Being caught out so many years after one's parting this life, must in itself be considered a wannabe disaster.
I'm happy to have this little medal "memorial" to a chap who really wanted to be British / Irish veteran, and whose ego got the better of him.
He was at least well travelled, and never really in danger of loosing his life in a conflict.
There must be many more of these instances and perhaps a new field of collecting??
Many thanks, Evyn

Hi Evyn

I've scanned the 4 pages of service documents but the files are too big to post on here. If you PM me your email address I'll send them to you as email attachments.

Self awards are not that uncommon, either because the man felt he should have received a medal or medals that he didn't, to enhance his apparent service to 'fit in' with his contemporaries or simply to deceive. Todd falls into the second category.

Over the years I've seen a few sel awarded KSAs renamed to men officially awarded a QSA, usually with both date clasps. It seems to me that they'd seen comrades or other soldiers wearing a KSA with the two date clasps and felt entitled to one as they'd also served in SA in 1901 and 1902. Having date clasps on both medals didn't seem to strike these men as a bit odd!

David

Further to my last post right on cue lot 183 in DNW's October auction is a classic case of self awarded clasps on a QSA and a self awarded KSA.

The QSA to Pilford bears the clasps CC, Tr, RoK, Paard & Drief. The inclusion of both CC and RoK is enough to query the award straight away.The KSA is described as "unofficially renamed".

Pilford's correct entitlement is a QSA with clasps CC, SA01 and SA02. He was of course not entitled to a KSA. I've advised DNW of the discrepancy.

David