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Martini Metford calvary Stock Markings 3 years 10 months ago #74140

  • Rocket_James
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Hi can anyone tell me the history of this rifle? Thanks

photos.app.goo.gl/r9mAgXP2de3iNqXP8

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Martini Metford calvary Stock Markings 3 years 10 months ago #74151

  • Rob D
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I can't help you with the issue markings on the buttstock.
On the metal, the markings on the right side of the receiver show it was made as a Martini Henry carbine in 1884.
So far, so good.
But the left of the receiver looks a wee bit odd to me. It should bear the markings of its conversion to .303 calibre, and indeed it does.... However, those conversions only began in 1892, yours is dated 1884 which is impossible.
In addition, the numbers in the date 1884 don't look quite right to me: the 8 stamps look upside down and the 4 is sagging below the line of the other numbers.
There should be a full stop between V and R beneath the crown.
Can you tell us more about the carbine, such as where it is from? Has it been in Afghanistan, by any chance?
Rob
The past is not dead. In fact, it's not even past.

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Martini Metford calvary Stock Markings 3 years 10 months ago #74152

  • Rocket_James
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I bought this at auction recently it was posted as a martini enfield but it appears to be a martini Metford. I have no other information but your thoughts about it being from Afghanistan make sense because the date is definitely unusual.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rob D

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Martini Metford calvary Stock Markings 3 years 10 months ago #74164

  • Dave F
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The Northwest Frontier could fit the bill. 1885 to 1887.. I would have expected a longer wooden forestock on the rifle barrel to be a cavalry carbine. However ,that may have been cut back and modified during its history.The Martini breech part of the rifle looks pretty genuine, but has Rob has mentioned the 1884 date and the stamps seem dubious, as for the barrel and markings on the furniture I am not so sure.
The Egyptian and Indian armies used the Martini rifle. The deficiencies of the Martini were quite serious. As a result, during the 1880s the Board of Ordnance experimented with a range of new rifle systems which included combinations of Martini falling block breech mechanism with rifle types designed by the Enfield factory and by the inventor and engineer William Metford. Various breech and rifling combinations known as Enfield Martinis and Martini – Metfords, were produced for trial use between 1886 and 1895 and some were actually issued to colonial forces. The British Arms committee report of 1887 did not favour any of the above combinations of the Martini mechanism, but recommended the adoption of a new bolt action system. the result was the Lee- Metford.
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.
Best regards,
Dave

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Martini Metford calvary Stock Markings 3 years 10 months ago #74167

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It seems impossible that a martini Metford would or could be issued with a wrong date. Either this rifle is a preliminary trial rifle or an afganastan counterfeit. Due to the other odd elements of the receiver offered by Rob I would have no other conclusion than the latter. These rifles were a common production in afganistan. The thing that troubles me is that the right side of the receiver (hence the original receiver) seems correct which means that the original martini henry rifle was modified in afganistan which seems odd.

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Martini Metford calvary Stock Markings 3 years 10 months ago #74168

  • Dave F
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It does look like the rifle has been modified as you suggest. I have enclosed a few images for you to have a look at.
The 1884 Martini stamp. And a MK1 Martini- Metford Carbine-Cavalry.

Martini Metford Cavalry Carbine MkI
Conversion from Martini Henry IC1 Cavalry carbine.
The Martini Metford Cavalry Carbine MkI was a simple conversion of existing .450” IC1 Cavalry carbines, with a heavy profile .303” Metford Barrel, In total 11,150 were produced. The MkI* is nearly identical to the MKI, except it has a winged ramped foresight and a shortened nose cap from the MH IC1 CC. There is no bayonet provision on this carbine, and the usual leather Cavalry Carbine sight protector is fitted. Most MkI carbines were converted at Sparkbrook into MK1* the Pattern was sealed on June 7th 1893. In 1895, the HRB Co manufactured 100 for the Indian Government. Originally the breech block was a converted Martini Henry pattern with a dovetailed slot in the front, later blocks were replaced by the purpose made .303” pattern. The rear sight leaf is the shortened version sighted to 1,400 yards. The ribbed end cleaning rod is 21” (52.5cm) long.Manufactured/converted by the Henry Rifled Barrel Company.

If your assumptions are correct regarding Afghanistan? and the reference to the date stamps and their positioning, it may well be a Khyber Pass modified copy.
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.
Best regards,
Dave
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