TOPIC:

Lyle's medal holds a special place in my affections as I was "on hand" to bid for it at Spink in 2006 (I think it was...) I remember the bid estimate in the catalogue being 60 pounds but when the auctioneer got round to it he started at 80!! Luckily there was not much interest in it so my bid of 90 pounds carried the day

Lyle was quite an unremarkable fellow and someone who, despite my best efforts, has remained a mystery post 1904 when he took his discharge and, ostensibly, his passage back to Scotland. Perhaps the many and various corruptions of the spelling of his christian name has something to do with it!

Quinten Lyle

3rd Class Trooper, South African Constabulary – Anglo Boer War
Rifleman, 3rd Battalion, Auckland Regiment, N.Z.E.F. - WWI

- Queens South Africa Medal with clasps Cape Colony; Orange Free State; Transvaal, South Africa 1901 & 1902

Quinten (or Quintin) Lyle was a Scotsman born and bred. He came into this world at Saint Giles in Edinburgh on 12 March 1881 the son of James Lyle and his wife Jane, born Peacock. At the time of the 1881 census Quinten was only 1 month old and was resident in Currier Close, Edinburgh St. Giles together with his parents and older sibling Isabella (2). Completing the mix was Jane’s mother also Isabella (62)


photo courtesy of Andrew Farmer

At the time of the 1891 Scotland census Quinten was a 10 year old school boy and the family had moved to 156 Rose Street, Edinburgh. Isabella or “Bella” was now 11 and there were new additions to the brood in the form of Robert (8) and Jane (9 months)

October 1899 saw the start of the Anglo Boer War and a young Lyle (almost 20) completed the South African Constabulary Recruiting form at the Recruiting Office in Lawnmarket Street, Edinburgh on 29 January 1901 for service in South Africa. More about him can be gleaned from the questions he answered which reveal that he was a Glazier by trade and still unmarried. He provided his father as his next of kin with the address of 114 Rose Street, Edinburgh (the family had moved up the road)

Physically he was described as 5 feet 6 inches in height weighing 133 pounds and with a fresh complexion, grey eyes and light brown hair. The Doctor remarked that he “is well developed of good physique and medically fit”. He was deemed to be a “Fair” rider and an “Indifferent” shot and came away with the Riding and Shooting Certificate to prove it. The two referrals that he provided (this was a prerequisite), came from the Rev. W. Mitchell, B.D., the Assistant Minister of the Parish of St. Cuthbert’s, Edinburgh who wrote, “This is to say that from what I know of Quenten (sic) Lyle 114 Rose St. I believe him to be a young man of good honest character and one who if found qualified will serve faithfully His Majesty.”

The other referral was from Margaret Robertson of 12 Leven Terrace, Edinburgh who wrote, “I have much pleasure in recommending Quentin Lyle as steady, honest and a good workman. I have known him for the last eighteen months as a faithful member of St. Cuthbert’s Bible Class, and am acquainted with many of his most intimate friends.”

Thus introduced Lyle was accepted as the newest member of the S.A.C. and set sail for South Africa and the war with no. 431 and the rank of 3rd Class Trooper. On his arrival he signed the Attestation Paper for 3 years service to count from 27 March 1901 in front of Lt. Boag. This was on 3 April 1901.

On 1 October 1901 he was transferred from the Reserve Division to “B” Division where he remained until 1 July 1903 on transfer to H.Q. Depot at Auckland Park. On 1 February 1904 his rank was, in keeping with the new structures prevailing at the time, changed to 3rd Class Constable.

After what was an uneventful war Lyle took his discharge, time expired, from the S.A.C. on 26 March 1904. He had served for exactly 3 years and received a character rating of Very Good. His Defaulters Sheet was also disappointingly clear of any entries which might have made him a bit more colourful.

His address was to be 44 Main Street, Johannesburg although his leave application mentioned that he would be proceeding to Scotland.

Post Boer War Lyle made his way to New Zealand which is where he was to spend the rest of his days. All went quiet on the Lyle front until 23 August 1916 the day he completed Attestation forms for service with E Company of the 20th Battalion, New Zealand Expeditionary Force at Featherston. He confirmed that he had been born on 12 March 1881 and that his mother Mrs. Jane Lyle of Cromwell St., Edinburgh was his next of kin.

He was a Painter by trade and confirmed that he had prior service with the South African Constabulary. Now 35 years of age he was 5 feet 6 inches in height, weighed 105 pounds and had a ruddy complexion, grey eyes and dark brown hair. He also had a burn scar on his left upper arm.
Medically all was in order save for his teeth which were described as “bad”. Irregardless he was pronounced Fit and was assigned no. 34393 and the rank of Private. Interestingly a brother, Robert Lyle of 1 Vermont St. Ponsonby, Auckland, New Zealand, must have followed him out as he is registered as an alternate next of kin.

According to Lyle’s Record of Service he was stationed at home (New Zealand) from 23 August 1916 until 1 January 1917 which is when he left for the Western Front. This was a total of 133 days, nothing compared to the 1 year and 295 days he was to spend in combat before returning to New Zealand on 24 October 1918 preparatory to being discharged on 13 December 1918.

On 2 January 1917 he embarked at Wellington for the front arriving at Simonstown in South Africa on 6 February 1917. Once in South African waters the troops were allowed to disembark and make their way into Cape Town and the surrounding area for a bit of respite before embarking again on 24 February for England aboard the R.M.S. “Walmer Castle”.

It was during this sojourn in the Cape that Lyle blotted his copybook – on 7 February he was guilty of “smoking a cigarette” and awarded 3 days Confinement to Barracks. This was followed by the offence of Absent Without Leave from 11 p.m. on 9 February until 6 p.m. on 10 February. For this offence he was awarded 14 days C.B. and docked with 2 days pay. Lyle was on a streak though and wasn't about to let officialdom get the better of him – on 13 February he “Broke ship whilst a Defaulter” for which he was confined to the troopship.

On 20 February, whilst at training camp in Cape Town he failed to arrive at C.D. call and was awarded another 3 days Confinement to Barracks. He topped this one however, two days later when he was found to have left his “Light burning and talking after Lights Out” – for this he was awarded another 3 days C.B.

On 23 March 1917 the ship docked at Devonport and Lyle and his comrades disembarked with Lyle being attached to the 1st A.I.R. at Sling from where he was taken on strength, at Codford on 24 April 1917, of the 6th Company. Here Lyle’s restlessness came to the fore again and he made himself guilty of being Absent Without Leave from 10 p.m. on 7 May 1917 until 10 p.m. on 8 May 1917, forfeiting 2 days pay in the process.

On 28 May 1917 the great day arrived and he sailed for France and the action. Ere long he was up to his tricks again when on 20 August 1917 he was found guilty of “Neglect to the prejudice of good order and military discipline in that he failed to wear his equipment while on duty.”This happened in the Field and he was given 10 days Field Punishment. Two months later, on 29 October 1917 he was found guilty of “An act to the Prejudice of good order and military discipline” in that he on 29.10. 17 “failed to observe the Sanitary Regulations by using an unauthorised Place as a Latrine.” For this heinous crime he was awarded 168 hours Field Punishment.

On 18 January 1918 he was detached from the 3rd Battalion Auckland Regiment where he had been for quite some time, to the 1sr Australian Tunnelling Company. This was of short duration before he was posted back on 24 February 1918.

On 2 March 1918 he was posted to the 2/3 New Zealand Rifle Brigade and on 20 April 1918 he was Wounded in Action being admitted to the 3rd Canadian Stationary Hospital for treatment. What was the extent of the wound? He received a severe Gun Shot Wound to the right leg which fractured his fibula. On 25 April he embarked for England at Rouen and, on arrival was admitted to the No. 1 N.Z. General Hospital at Brockenhurst.

For Lyle the war was effectively over and, having been classified as “No long physically fit for War Service on account of wounds received in action” by a Medical Board, he was unable to return to the front. On 7 September 1918 he embarked at Liverpool for home.

Having reached New Zealand he was discharged at Wellington with a Military Character of Good. He earned the British War Medal and Victory Medal but the family have no knowledge of their whereabouts or if they were ever claimed.

On 16 September 1956 at the age of 74 Quentin Lyle breathed his last and was cremated on 18 September of that year. He had been resident at 5A Marine Parade, Howick and was a Retired Painter and Paper Hanger by trade. He had apparently married his brother Robert’s widow although he never had children and was remembered by his family as being a quiet man.[/size]

Hi Rory, yes I am family, I do have a photo, and would be very glad to send you a copy via email if you would like. Quentin was in the first world war, and I did some research since talking to you and found he was in the New Zealand Expeditionary Force. I need to do some research to get the details to you, Mum has them at the moment. Andrew.

That would be wonderful Andrew - I have sent you an e-mail. I always wondered why my research into his movements post Boer War drew a blank. Now that I know he was in New Zealand it explains why.

I would be very grateful for any other info you may be able to dig up on him.

Regards

Rory

Thanks to a relative of Lyle's who has been in communication with me I have been able to add not only a photo of Lyle but also the salient points of his WWI history.

This is truly the hobby that keeps on giving.

Regards

Rory

Great success Rory, congratulations what a superb outcome

Regards
Paul

Rory wrote: Thanks to a relative of Lyle's who has been in communication with me I have been able to add not only a photo of Lyle but also the salient points of his WWI history.

This is truly the hobby that keeps on giving.

Regards

Rory

A really super NZEF photograph, I am both pleased and somewhat relieved to hear that this gentleman managed to survive the carnage throughout the Great War, so very many did not.

Rory wrote: Lyle's medal holds a special place in my affections as I was "on hand" to bid for it at Spink in 2006 (I think it was...) I remember the bid estimate in the catalogue being 60 pounds but when the auctioneer got round to it he started at 80!! Luckily there was not much interest in it so my bid of 90 pounds carried the day

Lyle was quite an unremarkable fellow and someone who, despite my best efforts, has remained a mystery post 1904 when he took his discharge and, ostensibly, his passage back to Scotland. Perhaps the many and various corruptions of the spelling of his christian name has something to do with it!

Quinten Lyle

3rd Class Trooper, South African Constabulary – Anglo Boer War
Rifleman, 3rd Battalion, Auckland Regiment, N.Z.E.F. - WWI

- Queens South Africa Medal with clasps Cape Colony; Orange Free State; Transvaal, South Africa 1901 & 1902

Quinten (or Quintin) Lyle was a Scotsman born and bred. He came into this world at Saint Giles in Edinburgh on 12 March 1881 the son of James Lyle and his wife Jane, born Peacock. At the time of the 1881 census Quinten was only 1 month old and was resident in Currier Close, Edinburgh St. Giles together with his parents and older sibling Isabella (2). Completing the mix was Jane’s mother also Isabella (62)

photo courtesy of Andrew Farmer

At the time of the 1891 Scotland census Quinten was a 10 year old school boy and the family had moved to 156 Rose Street, Edinburgh. Isabella or “Bella” was now 11 and there were new additions to the brood in the form of Robert (8) and Jane (9 months)

October 1899 saw the start of the Anglo Boer War and a young Lyle (almost 20) completed the South African Constabulary Recruiting form at the Recruiting Office in Lawnmarket Street, Edinburgh on 29 January 1901 for service in South Africa. More about him can be gleaned from the questions he answered which reveal that he was a Glazier by trade and still unmarried. He provided his father as his next of kin with the address of 114 Rose Street, Edinburgh (the family had moved up the road)

Physically he was described as 5 feet 6 inches in height weighing 133 pounds and with a fresh complexion, grey eyes and light brown hair. The Doctor remarked that he “is well developed of good physique and medically fit”. He was deemed to be a “Fair” rider and an “Indifferent” shot and came away with the Riding and Shooting Certificate to prove it. The two referrals that he provided (this was a prerequisite), came from the Rev. W. Mitchell, B.D., the Assistant Minister of the Parish of St. Cuthbert’s, Edinburgh who wrote, “This is to say that from what I know of Quenten (sic) Lyle 114 Rose St. I believe him to be a young man of good honest character and one who if found qualified will serve faithfully His Majesty.”

The other referral was from Margaret Robertson of 12 Leven Terrace, Edinburgh who wrote, “I have much pleasure in recommending Quentin Lyle as steady, honest and a good workman. I have known him for the last eighteen months as a faithful member of St. Cuthbert’s Bible Class, and am acquainted with many of his most intimate friends.”

Thus introduced Lyle was accepted as the newest member of the S.A.C. and set sail for South Africa and the war with no. 431 and the rank of 3rd Class Trooper. On his arrival he signed the Attestation Paper for 3 years service to count from 27 March 1901 in front of Lt. Boag. This was on 3 April 1901.

On 1 October 1901 he was transferred from the Reserve Division to “B” Division where he remained until 1 July 1903 on transfer to H.Q. Depot at Auckland Park. On 1 February 1904 his rank was, in keeping with the new structures prevailing at the time, changed to 3rd Class Constable.

After what was an uneventful war Lyle took his discharge, time expired, from the S.A.C. on 26 March 1904. He had served for exactly 3 years and received a character rating of Very Good. His Defaulters Sheet was also disappointingly clear of any entries which might have made him a bit more colourful.

His address was to be 44 Main Street, Johannesburg although his leave application mentioned that he would be proceeding to Scotland.

Post Boer War Lyle made his way to New Zealand which is where he was to spend the rest of his days. All went quiet on the Lyle front until 23 August 1916 the day he completed Attestation forms for service with E Company of the 20th Battalion, New Zealand Expeditionary Force at Featherston. He confirmed that he had been born on 12 March 1881 and that his mother Mrs. Jane Lyle of Cromwell St., Edinburgh was his next of kin.

He was a Painter by trade and confirmed that he had prior service with the South African Constabulary. Now 35 years of age he was 5 feet 6 inches in height, weighed 105 pounds and had a ruddy complexion, grey eyes and dark brown hair. He also had a burn scar on his left upper arm.
Medically all was in order save for his teeth which were described as “bad”. Irregardless he was pronounced Fit and was assigned no. 34393 and the rank of Private. Interestingly a brother, Robert Lyle of 1 Vermont St. Ponsonby, Auckland, New Zealand, must have followed him out as he is registered as an alternate next of kin.

According to Lyle’s Record of Service he was stationed at home (New Zealand) from 23 August 1916 until 1 January 1917 which is when he left for the Western Front. This was a total of 133 days, nothing compared to the 1 year and 295 days he was to spend in combat before returning to New Zealand on 24 October 1918 preparatory to being discharged on 13 December 1918.

On 2 January 1917 he embarked at Wellington for the front arriving at Simonstown in South Africa on 6 February 1917. Once in South African waters the troops were allowed to disembark and make their way into Cape Town and the surrounding area for a bit of respite before embarking again on 24 February for England aboard the R.M.S. “Walmer Castle”.

It was during this sojourn in the Cape that Lyle blotted his copybook – on 7 February he was guilty of “smoking a cigarette” and awarded 3 days Confinement to Barracks. This was followed by the offence of Absent Without Leave from 11 p.m. on 9 February until 6 p.m. on 10 February. For this offence he was awarded 14 days C.B. and docked with 2 days pay. Lyle was on a streak though and wasn't about to let officialdom get the better of him – on 13 February he “Broke ship whilst a Defaulter” for which he was confined to the troopship.

On 20 February, whilst at training camp in Cape Town he failed to arrive at C.D. call and was awarded another 3 days Confinement to Barracks. He topped this one however, two days later when he was found to have left his “Light burning and talking after Lights Out” – for this he was awarded another 3 days C.B.

On 23 March 1917 the ship docked at Devonport and Lyle and his comrades disembarked with Lyle being attached to the 1st A.I.R. at Sling from where he was taken on strength, at Codford on 24 April 1917, of the 6th Company. Here Lyle’s restlessness came to the fore again and he made himself guilty of being Absent Without Leave from 10 p.m. on 7 May 1917 until 10 p.m. on 8 May 1917, forfeiting 2 days pay in the process.

On 28 May 1917 the great day arrived and he sailed for France and the action. Ere long he was up to his tricks again when on 20 August 1917 he was found guilty of “Neglect to the prejudice of good order and military discipline in that he failed to wear his equipment while on duty.”This happened in the Field and he was given 10 days Field Punishment. Two months later, on 29 October 1917 he was found guilty of “An act to the Prejudice of good order and military discipline” in that he on 29.10. 17 “failed to observe the Sanitary Regulations by using an unauthorised Place as a Latrine.” For this heinous crime he was awarded 168 hours Field Punishment.

On 18 January 1918 he was detached from the 3rd Battalion Auckland Regiment where he had been for quite some time, to the 1sr Australian Tunnelling Company. This was of short duration before he was posted back on 24 February 1918.

On 2 March 1918 he was posted to the 2/3 New Zealand Rifle Brigade and on 20 April 1918 he was Wounded in Action being admitted to the 3rd Canadian Stationary Hospital for treatment. What was the extent of the wound? He received a severe Gun Shot Wound to the right leg which fractured his fibula. On 25 April he embarked for England at Rouen and, on arrival was admitted to the No. 1 N.Z. General Hospital at Brockenhurst.

For Lyle the war was effectively over and, having been classified as “No long physically fit for War Service on account of wounds received in action” by a Medical Board, he was unable to return to the front. On 7 September 1918 he embarked at Liverpool for home.

Having reached New Zealand he was discharged at Wellington with a Military Character of Good. He earned the British War Medal and Victory Medal but the family have no knowledge of their whereabouts or if they were ever claimed.

On 16 September 1956 at the age of 74 Quentin Lyle breathed his last and was cremated on 18 September of that year. He had been resident at 5A Marine Parade, Howick and was a Retired Painter and Paper Hanger by trade. He had apparently married his brother Robert’s widow although he never had children and was remembered by his family as being a quiet man.[/size]