TOPIC:

Forum members
Seeing that Paul commenced a quite popular topic with Pte. Allen of Lovat's Scouts , I thought I would add a few pics from Black and White Magazine and illustrate the unusual impressed KSA unit naming.


Single QSA on left is to "8872 Pte.G.A.Ross Lovat's Scouts"
Pair on the right are to, respectively, "8782 Corpl. J.Morrison Lovat's Scouts" and "37447 Corpl. J.Morrison Lovat's Scouts. I.Y."
(Pte Ross declared himself to be a Medical Student with previous experience in the 1st Vol.Bn, Seaforths when he attested for service in the Black Watch for the "Special Highland Scouting Corps" on 05021900.)



On 12121899, Lord Lovat requested and was granted permission from the WO to raise "one and possibly two companies ...primarily for scouting purposes"; these to be attached to the Black Watch. Two Coys., 236 men in total were recruited - one mounted, one on foot. Up to 80 were chosen specifically for stalking prowess and all recruits were suitably tested for basic skills. After seven weeks of intensive training, the First Contingent of Lovat's departed from Beauly Station and arrived in Cape Town on 17041900.









It should be noted that the Infantry Coy of Lovat's appears to have been armed with .303" Martini rifles; whilst the Mounted lad ( in the pic, anyway) had a Magazine Lee Enfield., complete with arm sling.
(the following has been taken from the Lovat Scouts website; hope they don't mind!)

In the operations leading up to the surrender of Prinsloo in the Brandwater Basin, the Lovat Scouts were of the greatest worth. Gen. Hunter wrote of them ; " ... the mountain range to my front concealed forces whose numbers and whereabouts were a mystery. It possessed ins and outs, shepherd tracks, even occasional cart roads, none marked on maps. To get news, Lovat Scouts were used. The idea was General Macdonald's, instigated by Lord Lovat. In ones, twos and threes, these men crept, climbed and spied, were absent for days at a time, but always came safely back with the truth discovered. Major Andrew Murray, who commanded them, Capt. Lord Lovat who raised them and each officer and man in the Corps is a picked man and a specialist. As scouts, spies, guides on foot or on pony, as individual marksmen or as a collective body in the fighting line, they are a splendid band of Scotsmen, which is the highest compliment I can pay them".

Lord Lovat returned to Scotland in April 1901 to raise the second contingent, seeing that there was no sign of an end to the war. Two Coys. were raised (99th and 100th Coys) and these had a "perilously short" period of training before shipping to SA.

The Scouts suffered their only major disaster of the war at Guadeberg on the night of 19/20th September, 1901. The two Coys were operating in a joint patrol when a large number of Boers was sighted travelling West and an attack upon them the following day was planned. The Coys then returned to their seperate camp sites. The Boers were not to be caught so easily. They doubled back to Guadeberg and attacked L/Col. Murray's camp at midnight. L/Col Murray rallied the survivors for a bayonet charge but was shot dead in the process. Wounded Capt. Sephill took over and his thirty-five survivors held the camp for 40 minutes before retiring to Lord Lovat's camp. Murray's camp was retaken the next morning with M.I. support. Eighteen Lovat Scouts were killed and thirty six wounded.

As news of the tragedy reached Inverness, many old Scouts demanded to be dispatched to take the place of the dead and wounded. Thus, the Third Contingent of Lovat's Scouts, 125 strong, arrived in Cape Town on Christmas eve, 1901 and continued in action until the Peace treaty of 31051902.

On his return to the UK, Lord Lovat was given a Civic reception and 500 pounds was raised with the intention of presenting Lord Lovat with a portrait of himself. Lovat, however, insisted the sum be used to build a permanent memorial to the Scouts killed in the ABW. The monument, in the centre of Beauly, was completed in 1905.

IL

Hello Ian?

Thank for posting, I found it a good read.
Its a nice thought to think that your men and mine served together and may even of could be friends.I have a copy of Black and White with those pics.
Is the last pic also from B&W if so what date please.

Thanks again
Paul

LinneyI wrote: Forum members
Seeing that Paul commenced a quite popular topic with Pte. Allen of Lovat's, I thought I would add a few pics from Black and White Magazine and illustrate the unusual impressed KSA unit naming.

Single QSA on left is to "8872 Pte.G.A.Ross Lovat's Scouts"
Pair on the right are to, respectively, "8782 Corpl. J.Morrison Lovat's Scouts" and "37447 Corpl. J.Morrison Lovat's Scouts. I.Y."
(Pte Ross declared himself to be a Medical Student with previous experience in the 1st Vol.Bn, Seaforths when he attested for service in the Black Watch for the "Special Highland Scouting Corps" on 05021900.)

On 12121899, Lord Lovat requested and was granted permission from the WO to raise "one and possibly two companies ...primarily for scouting purposes"; these to be attached to the Black Watch. Two Coys., 236 men in total were recruited - one mounted, one on foot. Up to 80 were chosen specifically for stalking prowess and all recruits were suitably tested for basic skills. After seven weeks of intensive training, the First Contingent of Lovat's departed from Beauly Station and arrived in Cape Town on 17041900.

It should be noted that the Infantry Coy of Lovat's appears to have been armed with .303" Martini rifles; whilst the Mounted lad ( in the pic, anyway) had a Magazine Lee Enfield., complete with arm sling.
(the following has been taken from the Lovat Scouts website; hope they don't mind!)

In the operations leading up to the surrender of Prinsloo in the Brandwater Basin, the Lovat Scouts were of the greatest worth. Gen. Hunter wrote of them ; " ... the mountain range to my front concealed forces whose numbers and whereabouts were a mystery. It possessed ins and outs, shepherd tracks, even occasional cart roads, none marked on maps. To get news, Lovat Scouts were used. The idea was General Macdonald's, instigated by Lord Lovat. In ones, twos and threes, these men crept, climbed and spied, were absent for days at a time, but always came safely back with the truth discovered. Major Andrew Murray, who commanded them, Capt. Lord Lovat who raised them and each officer and man in the Corps is a picked man and a specialist. As scouts, spies, guides on foot or on pony, as individual marksmen or as a collective body in the fighting line, they are a splendid band of Scotsmen, which is the highest compliment I can pay them".

Lord Lovat returned to Scotland in April 1901 to raise the second contingent, seeing that there was no sign of an end to the war. Two Coys. were raised (99th and 100th Coys) and these had a "perilously short" period of training before shipping to SA.
The Scouts suffered their only major disaster of the war at Guadeberg on the night of 19/20th September, 1901. The two Coys were operating in a joint patrol when a large number of Boers was sighted travelling West and an attack upon them the following day was planned. The Coys then returned to their seperate camp sites. The Boers were not to be caught so easily. They doubled back to Guadeberg and attacked L/Col. Murray's camp at midnight. L/Col Murray rallied the survivors for a bayonet charge but was shot dead in the process. Wounded Capt. Sephill took over and his thirty-five survivors held the camp for 40 minutes before retiring to Lord Lovat's camp. Murray's camp was retaken the next morning with M.I. support. Eighteen Lovat Scouts were killed and thirty six wounded.
As news of the tragedy reached Inverness, many old Scouts demanded to be dispatched to take the place of the dead and wounded. Thus, the Third Contingent of Lovat's Scouts, 125 strong, arrived in Cape Town on Christmas eve, 1901 and continued in action until the Peace treaty of 31051902.
On his return to the UK, Lord Lovat was given a Civic reception and 500 pounds was raised with the intention of presenting Lord Lovat with a portrait of himself. Lovat, however, insisted the sum be used to build a permanent memorial to the Scouts killed in the ABW. The monument, in the centre of Beauly, was completed in 1905.
IL.
.

Paul
Sorry for the delay; the group pic with Lord Lovat at top RHS was taken from "After Pretoria; the Guerilla War" Vol.3 page 484. I had intended to cite it; however, I ran out of space . Here are a couple more from Vol.4 of the same source -


If you are interested, I found a more complete account of the action of 19/20 09 1901 in the abovementioned Vol.4. I tried to take pics of the text - but the text did not come out well. I have taken the liberty of editing the text as follows:

I must say that I don't think the experienced Commander and lads of the first contingent of Lovats would have been caught so badly as the Second Contingent. Col. Murray and his 2ic must bear responsibility for what followed. After the Lovats camp had been set up, the reduced picket line was marked down by Gen.Kritzinger and a storming force of a hundred burghers slipped through and actually got into the camp and opened fire on the tent lines. Col. Murray was shot, bayoneted and killed; his 2ic was found with twelve wounds in his body. The sentry on the gun was "horribly mutilated". In the context of a surprise attack, such things happened; however the Boers then proceeded to question the non-combatant natives (presumably waggon drivers, etc and not scouts) about the whereabouts of ammunition for the captured 15 pdr and when this was located, the natives were executed one by one.

Vol.4 comments that, upon news of the disaster reaching home, another Company was raised to replace that had been "so severely handled". Paul, your man and my Cpl.Morrison would have been part of that later Contingent. The editor of Vol.4 comments of the similarity between the Wilmansrust disaster and that which befel the Lovats - and says that an inquiry took place as to the conduct of the outposts on the night of the 19th/20th; but it's verdict was never made public. He further comments that "the incident is still shrouded in mystery, and the full truth is not likely to be known for many years, perhaps not at all". "Yet it would seem that a full and public report in this case, as in the case of the disasterous attack on the camp of the Victorians at Wlimansrust some three months previous might have done much to warn commanders of the risk of an inefficient outpost service".
About the only bright spot in the whole mess was that Kritzinger did not manage to carry off the 15-pdr gun he had taken; Col. Thorneycroft - hearing of the disaster - arrived on the scene and attacked the escaping Boers; killing two, capturing twenty, recapturing the gun plus 10,000 rounds of rifle ammunition.
Regards
IL.

Hello Ian,

Many thanks again for your reply and the extra information.
I must admit I overlooked researching the "Guerilla War" book I only have Vol 3 or 4 so will have a look tonight.
That does sound like a brutal action, and the type of confrontations I imagine nearing the culmination of the war.

Regards
Paul

Beaufort Castle

Beaufort Castle was the seat of the Lords Lovat. Built in 1880, it is situated on the bank of the River Beauly, near the town of Beauly in Invernessshire.

Lovat's Scouts attested at Beaufort Castle and were trained in its grounds


Beaufort Castle, February 1900

There is an interesting Hansard report from 1904 involving Earl Wemyss, Earl Roberts and Lord Lovat.

The key points for me were:

- After Black Week, the need for better reconnaissance was recognised
- Telescopes were advocated due to the better range compared to binoculars
- Lord Lovat initially intended to send out trained deer-stalkers to be spread across units
- The War Office would only accept units of around 120 men
- Lord Lovat changed to composition of Lovat's Scouts, including more sharpshooters and fewer stalkers
- Earl Roberts saw Lovat's Scouts as Yeomanry and kept them together
- Earl Roberts used local men as scouts


THE YEOMANRY AND LOVAT'S SCOUTS. HL Deb 18 July 1904 vol 138 cc231-45

EARL WEMYSS. The other matter I refer to in my notice is the question of the Lovat Scouts. Lord Lovat and I, unconsciously, were working at the same time at the same thing. We had the disadvantage, at the commencement of the war, of experiencing what were called "regrettable incidents," like that at Magersfontein. When these regrettable incidents took place through blind blundering, I had a strong feeling that what was wanted were men who knew how to use the telescope. Your Lordships will hardly believe it, but our Army was sent out to South Africa with hardly a telescope among them. They had, no doubt, field-glasses magnifying twelve times; but my old deer-stalking glass used to magnify thirty-five times. So clear was the atmosphere, a member of Lord Lovat's scouts told me they saw quite a dozen miles away, a body of Boers marching along a hillside. They looked at them with their deer-stalking glasses, and the question was whether these men were twelve or fourteen miles away. That gives your Lordships a notion of what a telescope can do in that climate; but, notwithstanding that, our soldiers, as said, were sent out without telescopes. After Magersfontein a General—I will not say who—wrote to Sir David Gill, the Astronomer Royal at the Cape and said— “For God's sake send me as many telescopes as you can.” I know, as regards Lovat's Scouts, that one General—one of the good Generals out there—after he had inspected these scouts, said— “Until I saw you at work I had no idea of the use that a telescope could be in war.” It was a telescope that enabled the Duke of Wellington to win the battle of Assaye and cross the Douro, and your Lordships know well the picture of him, painted by Sir Thomas Lawrence, with blue frock coat and telescope in hand. Yet one hundred years afterwards the British Army went to war without telescopes, and a British General admitted that he was not aware of the use of telescopes in war!

Seeing all this, I felt strongly that what was wanted were scouts who knew how to stalk, men who knew the use of the telescope; for, after all, a soldier is nothing but a man-stalker, and the same qualities are necessary to make a man a good soldier and a good scout as are necessary to make him a good deerstalker. I wrote a letter to The Times on this subject, in which I asked— “Why don't they send out Highlanders, scouts accustomed to deer-stalking?” And the next day Lord Lovat, whom I had not the pleasure of knowing before, came to me and said— “What you have suggested I am busy doing. I am already forming such a body of men,” And a very good body of men they proved to be. But my Question refers to another matter. The last thing that came into my head, or into the head of any sensible person, the last thing that could have entered Lord Lovat's head when he was getting this corps together, was that they would be kept together, like any other body of troops, as a fighting unit. The idea was that they should be the eyes of the Army and be scattered about in different directions. But they were kept together. I asked one of these scouts how this came about, and he said it was due to the action of the authorities. I asked which authorities, the authorities here or the authorities out there, and he replied— “The authorities out there.” I have heard since that the authorities here and the authorities in South Africa differed on this point, but the latter had their own way and the men were kept together. A speech was made by my noble friend Lord Lovat in the Highlands which explains the whole thing so far as his knowledge goes, and I had intended quoting it. As however, the noble and gallant Lord is here to-night it would be absurd for me to read extracts from his speech; but I believe I am justified in asking how it happened that the Lovat Scouts were kept together as a fighting unit, and upon whom the responsibility of such a waste of power rests.

LORD LOVAT My Lords, I rise with considerable reluctance to address your Lordships. I have very distinct views, and have not hesitated to express them on this subject, and I should be very sorry if, through not being accustomed to public speaking, I should say one word more than the case justified about any corps with which I have been associated. But as Lord Wemyss has asked me to do so, I will state exactly the manner in which the Lovat Scouts were treated, and how this question arose. Immediately after Magersfontein, in December, 1899, I went to the War Office and offered to raise a body of men, with ten or twelve officers and six or eight trained telescope men, stalkers, and others from the Highlands. This offer was rejected, the War Office informing me that they could only deal with units. They insisted that there should be 116 men, a bugler, two shoeing-smiths, and some farriers; and they declined to deal with any other force except a force thus composed. Accordingly I went out to South Africa with two units such as they desired me to raise.

I would like to put Lord Wemyss right by saying that there was no chance, when once in South Africa, of dividing these units. The responsibility as to their organisation in units rests entirely with the War Office here. I did not take as many stalkers as I would otherwise have taken; I only took sufficient to do the work for these companies. In order to meet the War Office views I went in for picked shots. If the force had been organised as I had intended, and only stalkers had been taken, I consider that they would have been of very much greater use. I say this for two reasons. In the first place, as is well known, on the whole of the Colenso side there were only three officers at one time who were able to use the telescope efficiently. I think that if some thirty or forty good men had been distributed throughout the Army the work would have been done a great deal more efficiently. There is an other reason why I think the men could have done better service if they had been split up. On very many occasions we lent from the Lovat Scouts telescope men to various batteries, and as they asked for these men again in subsequent actions, I take it they were satisfied with the work the men did. On the point brought forward by Lord Wemyss as to the work of advance guards, I can only say this, that in two and half years experience I never knew any advance guard, possessing men with telescopes, which ran into the enemy. On each occasion that traps or ambuscades were laid they were discovered, not at two miles, as was generally the case, but at seven miles.

I have nothing further to add with regard to the regiment with which I am associated, but I would like just to say one or two words on the subject of telescopes in war. I do not believe that the War Office have realised the necessity, especially in an open country, of the telescope in war. It is certain that in the clear atmosphere of South Africa, provided climatic influences were favourable, a single horseman could be detected up to a distance of fourteen miles, a number of troops on the march and camps of white tents could be distinguished up to twenty or twenty-one miles, and a man's head and shoulders above an intrenchment at 7,000 yards. The magnifying power of the stalkers' glass runs to thirty-five times, but with the glass used by the forces in South Africa you cannot see equally well up to half that distance. There is another reason for substituting entirely the telescope for the glass now used. I know the present glass is very much easier learnt, and I do not think any man, unless he has had six months study, can do any good with the telescope. I found on several occasions when I issued telescopes to men who had no previous training that it was necessary to take them back and give them the ordinary glasses. They did better work, untrained, with the latter.

There is great need for increasing our powers of vision in the British Army. We continually blundered, quite unnecessarily, into the enemy in South Africa. Our artillery, on many occasions, fired on our own men, as also did the cavalry and infantry, and on several occasions I saw the artillery wasting hundred of shells in searching positions. Both of these errors would have been avoided by the use of proper telescopes. I would say that the first step for the War Office to take is to entirely abolish the obsolete telescopes that are now in use. The telescope they issued to me during the second year of the war, when drawn out to the full length, was 4 feet 11 inches. It was perfectly useless except on a stage. It weighed three times as much as the ordinary glass, and I understand it cost a good deal more than the glasses that one can buy at the Co-operative Stores. No doubt a man must be trained in the use of the telescope, but it is safe to say that a certain number of men go into the Army every year who have had some training with the telescope, before they join, and if they were discovered and put into the artillery, cavalry, or those branches of the service in which the telescope is most essential, some advantage might be gained. If we are unable to get trained men in the Army, there is no reason why a certain number of trained Scottish stalkers should not be maintained, by paying them a fee or by other means, as a sort of Reserve to be attached to batteries in time of war. There can be no difficulty in maintaining a small force like this. These men, I suggest, could be attached to the Intelligence Department to help the advance guard in the line of march, and they could do outpost work with the troops when halted, or assist the general in seeing at great distances.

EARL ROBERTS My Lords, the noble Earl who began the debate brought forward two points—the equipment of Yeomanry and the employment of Lovat's Scouts. The last point my noble friend Lord Lovat has, I think, explained away. Lovat's Scouts were not employed as scouts in South Africa because they were not sent out to me as scouts. When the Yeomanry came out some were called sharpshooters, some roughriders, and some scouts. I saw Lovat's Scouts for the first time at Kroonstad in May, 1900, and I inspected them there. Lord Lovat never said anything to me about their being scouts, and I gather from what my noble friend has stated that the men were not specially trained as scouts. I would certainly never have thought of employing men sent out as Yeomanry, as they were, who were perfectly unacquainted with the country, on the very difficult work of scouting. I employed men of the country whenever I could get them.