TOPIC:

Can anyone help with the papers for Sgt A T Smith 9th Coy 3rd IY. He's on the medal rolls as AT or AS (C O T SA01) but I cannot find his papers on FMP. Their Anglo-Boer war records have him as A Tom Smith and Asplin has him as simply Tom Smith so I'm wondering whether he has been indexed wrongly although I have been through all the IY Smiths. Teach me to buy a Smith medal without checking first!

Paul

Hello Paul

This is what is in WO128 for him, simply a slip saying his papers were sent to the Ministry of Pensions. You might want to try a FOI request for his papers.

The FmP Index for WO128 is broken and they decline to fix it. How you find papers is to use "British Army Service Records Image Browse", filter on "WO128". Then you are shown the "boxes" of the papers arranged by service number, scroll through the list and select the range of service numbers and browse.

Regards
Meurig

Hello Meurig.

Thank you for that. At least I know where his papers went. To whom should I direct a FOI request? I am possibly being a bit thick but how do I find the "British Army Service Records Image Browse", filter on "WO128"? I have quite a list of Yorkshire Hussars whose papers are proving elusive.

Regards
Paul

Hello Paul

In the A-Z of Record Sets:

search.findmypast.co.uk/historical-recor...subcountryfieldname=

FOI: From the British Medal Forum:
"I have over the last 18 months applied for information from the MOD re Service records under the FOI. Each and everytime they have come back with utter BULL5h1t on the matter - Each and everytime I have reapplied and quoted various sections of FOI and Data Protection Act (DPA) not relating to deceased soldiers. Now have 100% success rate. I also applied for my own papers which was enlightening!

If any one needs help with such requests ask

Simple rules apply

If you are NOK you can have it
If you can prove the individual is dead, Death Certificate, Obit, will you can have it
If you can not prove they are dead but 112 years has passed since their birth you can have it

You may have to accept redacted copies - certain rules apply to witnesses, personal data etc but generally - you can have the info unless there is a good reason ( there are few!!!!!!!!!) not to.

OK I leave myself open to lots of emails but I am here to help
ZEB has kindly condensed 100 odd pages - here -



MOD Service Records

The MOD argue that the release of Service Records have nothing to do with FOI. To some etetnt their right, they are personal data, which isn’t covered under FOI. However, they are happy to release them under their “Departmental Publication Scheme’ (with proof of death, over 25 years ago, and £30!). However, any complaints, are handled the same way as FOI. See below for more details.

Application

1. Fill in ‘Part 1’ of the application (same for all three services). This gives YOUR details
2. Fill in the RELEVANT ‘Part 2’, each service has a different one
3. Write out a cheque for £30 and send to the RELEVANT address
4. The MOD will send an acknowlagement a few days later, saying it will take x months.
Records

The RN seem to take the longest
The RAF, next
However currently, the Army are the quickest (I received one set in 8 days, however generally takes about three weeks).

What to do next

With the RN, they generally send you all they have (I think?) – ie. A list of postings, ships, ranks etc, and a copy of the medal card. Until the 1970s, they gave the full service record to the sailor on discharge, and kept, only what was needed for, pay and pension purposes.

The RAF will redact pretty much everything, less a list of postings, promotions, medals – and that’s about it!

The Army are usually very good, less so for officers. With ORs, one gets pretty much everything (attestation, what would be considered a ‘service file’ as such). However, they withhold disciplinary records, medical (not much use to us anyway), and personal details (like marriage details, children’s details – but these can be found out on Ancestry, FMP etc).

Army Officer’s are a different story altogether – I was sent the AF B199a (the ‘Record of Service’, everything about their career, with personal details redacted as above). However, I wouldn’t accept that that was all for 40 years service. Kicked up a bit of a fuss and I was sent a better copy of the B199a, and the ‘Service and Casualty Forms’ (pretty much the same as those from the WW1 files) – told me a hell of a lot more than the ‘B199a’.

The Home Guard records are usually two sides of A4, with very basic details – they’re not really worth getting for £30!

How to complain

1. What they call an ‘informal resolution’ – email the contact on the letter and ‘ask your question’. Usually, can you kindly send me the est of his papers, why has ‘x’ been redacted?...
2. If your still not satisfied, you can complain to the ‘Director of Information’, MOD, for an internal review of your case.
3. If your still not satisfied you can refer it to the Information Commissioner’s Office for their ruling.

Remember

The Data Protection Act (DPA) is only relevant for living people – our subjects’ are dead, for more than 25 years to get the records

Good luck!

Zeb

Addresses you may find useful!
Applications Initially to

E1 Disclosures APC - (ARMY Personnel Centre)
Civil Secretariat,
Mail Point 515
Kentigern House
65 Brown Street
Glasgow
G2 8EX



Complaint to Mrs Carol Tilsley
Info-Access Rev AD
MOD
Level 6 Zone E
Main Building
Whitehall
London
SW1A 2HB

The top man is


Director of Information (Exploitation)
DG Info 6th Floor Zone F Desk 51
Main Building
Whitehall
London
SW1A 2HB
Q&Aa
1. What address to write to - this very much depends on which Branch of MOD - Army above

RN - RN Disclosure Cell Room 107, Victory Building,HMNB Portsmouth PO1 3LS
RAF - RAF DPA SAR Focal Point, PMA IM1A, Room 5, Building 248 RAF Personnel Management Authority, RAF Innsworth, Gloucester GL3 1EZ
From Jonny - 2/6/10
The latest twist to applying for RAF Service Records is that they MUST be on the appropriate forms. The 'Centre' i.e. MoD Whitehall, has given direction that applications can not now be by a simple letter. This, I found to my cost last week, when I received a written reply to my latest request. The letter they sent me enclosed a set of blank forms and asked me to transcribe all the info that was contained within my original letter onto these forms. A very nice lady on the telephone told me that this was the way it must be done from now on, an she did not get paid enough to tell me why this was so. You have to love the MoD!

RFA Seafarers - RFA Pers Ops Room 12 MP G1, West Battery Whale Island, Portsmouth PO2 8DX
DSTL - DSTL DPA Focal Point, Corporate Seretariat, Room 23, Building 106, DTSL, Porton Down, Salisbury, SP4 0JQ
ABRO, Building 203 Monxton Road Andover Hants
DARA - DPA Focal Point, DARA Personnel Office Admiralty Way, Taunton TA1 2DN
Met Office - DPO, Met Office Green island 1, Fitzroy Road, Exeter EX1 3PB
2. Who the cheques are made payable to - it varies
3. The correct wording in order to make a FOI request that isn't going to bounce -
as above
4. The conditions under which a FOI request can be made - 116 years since birth or 25 years since death
5. What proof and actual documents are needed for a FOI to be sucessful
Death certificate, obituary, CWGC etc is also accepted

Army service record that you have applied for the email address is: [email protected]


0141-224-2507 0800 to 1630 Monday to Thursday 0800 to 1200 Friday

Pete"

Regards

Thank you very much Meurig. The image browser will keep me occupied for many weeks. I think I will give the FOI pathway a miss though!

Paul

Meurig has very kindly led me to this goldmine of IY service records by service number which the standard FMP search often misses. However there seems to be a box missing-box No 64 containing the records of service numbers 23051-23290. Does it exist? I was looking for the papers of Arthur Harvey, 23072, who appears on the medal roll of the 101st IY (Northumberland) and is noted to have deserted in December 1901 but strangely seems to have been given the Yorkshire Tribute medal!

Paul