TOPIC:

Hi new to this forum-I produce medal frames/replica medals and research where I can to confirm bar or other medal entitlement and I have an interesting single QSA.

The family have the original medal with 5 bars-Relief of Kimberley,Driefontein,Paardberg,Johannesburg,Diamond Hill.

His name is W Kindler -3380 Duke of Edinburgh's Own Volunteer Rifles,3380 kitchener's Horse,23833 Cape Colony Cyclist Corps.

I have located 4 copies of rolls:
1/dated 15th July 1901-Trooper Duke of Edinburgh's 3380 entitlement Cape Colony Bar-also note on roll what appears to be 'Struck off strength of Kitchener's Horse'

2/Dated 4th October 1901 3380 Kitchener's Horse confirming entitlement to first 3 bars Rel Kim, Drief and Paardberg

3/Dated 9th May (poss) 1904 -23833 Serj Cape Col Cyc Corps entitlement to South Africa 1901 Bar but further note stating 'NO MEDAL Discharged with ignominy'

4/Dated 6th Aug 1902 the 3 first bars and Cape Col Cyc Corps

I can find no entitlement to Jo'burg and Diamond Hill and if discharged with ignominy which is in effect disgrace did he forfeit his medal?

The family have the original medal but with Jo'burg and Diamond Hill which I am replicating with the correct bars and hence the search on the rolls-I have only photos of the original but it does not appear skimmed or renamed and I am wondering if he had been issued his QSA with the correct 3 bars and then just added 2 that he could find as he knew he had 5?

My questions are does anyone have any records to explain his discharge and theories as to the correct bar entitlement any help much appreciated,

many thanks Peter

Hello Peter
Welcome to the forum.

Sergeant Kindler whilst serving with the Cape Colony Cycling Corps was discharged with ignominy for the following:-
Section 12 Desertion., plus a section 9 ( not sure what section 9 refers to) I'm sure a learned forum member can help?

Also, other contributing reasons for his discharge included, Malingering and failure to deliver a despatch. Sentencing was 3 months, additional note records sentence committed to 42 days. Court martial was held at Aberdeen Eastern Cape.
Discharge date 12th of June 1901
Dave........

Hi Dave,

many thanks for the info on his 'Ignominy'! I guess he would have forfeited his QSA as such so the medal the family has may be renamed, I would like to get to grips with his correct entitlement had he not had to have forfeited his medal which is according to my research:

Relief of Kimberley,Driefontein,Paardberg,Cape Colony and SA 1901

this forum also gave info on a name search that he was wounded at Osfontein 4th March 1900 and served CCCC 20th Jan 01-12 Aug 01.

I cannot imagine he was all that bad a soldier as he was wounded and risen to Serjeant which I cannot imagine would have been an easy career in those days and perhaps he just had had enough by the time he deserted.

The definition of deserted I would read as in the face of the enemy deserted his post as opposed to AWOL unless someone can advise? Leavde may not have been an existing thing back then.

many thanks Peter

Can anyone enlighten us as to what "section 9" offence might refer to please? Is the Court Martial material available on line? If so can you provide a link? W Kindler was my Great Grandfather, sounds like a bit of a "character"!

These seems to be sections of the Army Act. Section 12 dealt with desertion, and section 9 with wilfully disobeying an order given by a superior :

Thanks for your previous response re details of my Great Grandfather's Court Martial. Can you tell me where the information you provided came from please? It would be great to be able to refer to it myself to see if I can glean any additional information. Thanks in advance.