Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC:

Burger P.W. Stoop of the Wakkerstroom Commando 1 year 6 months ago #91911

  • Rory
  • Rory's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 3492
  • Thank you received: 2325
Petrus Wilhelmus Stoop

Burger, Wakkerstroom Kommando

- Anglo Boere Oorlog Medal to BURG. P.W. STOOP

Piet Stoop was born on the farm Oudehoutkloof in the Wakkerstroom district near Volksrust which, in turn, is just over the Natal border in the Transvaal, on 21 November 1882, the son of Hendrik Gerhardus Stoop, a farmer, and his wife Anna Jacoba, born Oosthuizen.

Life, growing up in these quiet pastoral surroundings, would have been idyllic for the young Piet and he would not have lacked for playmates – Afrikaans (or Dutch as they were then labelled) families being frequently large ones. Joining him on the farm were Susara Johanna Susanna; Maria Johanna Cornelia; Johanna Wilhelmina Catherina Joacheminia (quite a mouthful there); Martha Aletta Elizabeth Johanna; Hendrik Gerhardus and Johannes Wilhelmus. Seven children with Piet sandwiched in the middle.



Map detailing where Stoop farmed in proximity to where he worked and fought

As the 19th century hurtled to a close the rumblings and rumours of war became more prevalent, reaching even into the far-flung corners of the Transvaal – as far as sleepy Wakkerstroom. As far back as 1896 the ill-fated and poorly conceived Jameson Raid had finally fractured the delicate trust which President Paul Kruger had with regard to British intentions on his country’s sovereignty. Although acting as a maverick and without official sanction from London, Jameson and his Raid, which had as its objective, the overthrow of the Transvaal Government, was perceived by Kruger to be an act of aggression providing the stimulus needed to undergo a massive armament procurement.

Every Burger (citizen) of the Transvaal and its Orange Free State ally could buy a brand new Mauser rifle the Government for a few Pounds. In addition, several state-of-the-art artillery pieces were acquired from Krupp and Creusot for the Transvaal Staats Artillerie. The Republics were placed on a war footing.

Matters came to a head on 11 October 1899 when the ultimatum from Kruger for the British to remove their troops from his borders went, as expected, unanswered. Burgers had for many weeks in anticipation of this event, been mobilised and told to report from their farms to the Commando’s gathering in the various town markets squares throughout the land. Wakkerstroom was no exception and a 17 year old Piet Stroop, along with several of his cousins, answered the call and came into town with a weeks supply of biltong, his rifle and a bandolier or two of ammunition.

Thus it was that, with the dawn of 12 October 1899, the Commandos closest to the Natal border crossed over and headed for the locality of Dundee where Penn-Symons, with a garrison of 4000 men, awaited them. Fortunately for the collector, each and every Boer combatant desirous of a medal was required to complete an application Vorm B from 1921, the date the award of the medal was approved. This form, in the Burger’s own handwriting, complete with his signature (or that of his next of kin should he have been a fatality), provides not only the details of from when he served and under whom but, more importantly, where he was in action. All of the above had to be vouchsafed by a combination of his comrades who fought with him and his senior officers under whom he served.

Piet Stoop applied for his medal, completing Vorm B, on 11 March 1921. At that time he was living at Vlakpoort Siding in the Eastern Transvaal, not very far from his beloved Wakkerstroom. He claimed to have been in the field with the Wakkerstroom Commando under Veld Kornet G. Swart of nearby Amersfoort and a Veld Kornet L. Badenhorst. As witnesses he provided the signatures of Jan Simon Struweg and Sybrand Johannes Struwig (both of Wakkerstroom). G. Swart, who had advanced to Commandant, also confirmed that his version of events was true.



Vorm B

The Wakkerstroom Commando was known to have fought at the following engagements: Talana, Hlangwani, Ladysmith, Caesar’s Camp, Thukela, Karee Siding, Brandfort, Vet River, Lang’s Nek, Alleman’s Nek, Graskop, Amsterdam, Eastern Transvaal, Oshoek and Natal 1901. Twenty years later, when applying for his medal, Stroop fell into the habit so many adopted of writing down the first few engagements and then, almost as a caveat, stating “En veel ander plekken, te veel om te noem.” (“And many other places, too numerous to mention.”)

What he did confirm though, was that he was present at:

- Talana (Dundee)
- Through Natal (Colenso/Ladysmith/Thukela Heights)
- Elandsberg (District Wakkerstroom)

A “bitter einder” – one who fought through the entire three years of the war – from October 1899 until laying down their arms in June 1902 – he would have fought in a lot more engagements that are not mentioned above.

Talana – 20 October 1899

Talana was the first major engagement of the Second Anglo Boer War, taking place on 20 October 1899 on Talana hill, some two miles to the east of the town. It was fought between an under-strength brigade of some 4,000 British and colonial troops stationed in the town, commanded by William Penn-Symons, and an invading force of Boers under the command of Vecht Generaal Lukas Meyer. Under leaden skies, the Utrecht and Wakkerstroom Commandos occupied Talana Hill early that morning, together with three 75 mm guns of the Staatsartillerie. The Boers, having seized the initiative, now had to be knocked off the hill by a classic infantry fire-and-movement attack up the terraced slope, supported by artillery. The British force in the camp below, just outside of the town, had been caught by surprise but were quick to respond once they had been fired upon.

On Talana the commandos from Utrecht (under Commandant Joshua Joubert), Wakkerstroom (under Commandant Hattingh) and Krugersdorp (under General Potgieter), and a portion of the Ermelo commando, together with 3 guns (two 75mm Krupp field guns and one 75mm Creusot, under Major Wolmarans of the Transvaal Staats Artillerie) were ready and waiting, enfilading the advancing British troops with a withering fire as they tried to advance up the rocky slope with very little shelter.

Eventually, with support from artillery below, and a rush by the troops, the top was crested and the Boers were seen to be streaming away below, having taken to their horses. This was a Pyrrhic victory for the British as they evacuated Dundee a day or two later, leaving it at the mercy of the advancing Boers.

Ladysmith – the Siege

Having fallen back on Ladysmith from Dundee, General Yule joined General Sir George White’s garrison in Ladysmith. Despite a few efforts to stall the Boer advance, the Commandos from the Orange Free State linked up with those from the Transvaal and, encircling Ladysmith, laid siege to the town from 3 November 1899.

In Breytenbach’s Chapter 13 – The Siege of Ladysmith during 1899 (translated from the Afrikaans) – he provided details as to where in the ring of encampments surrounding Ladysmith the Wakkerstroom Commando was situated:

“ Further to the left on Bulwana and the neighbouring heights up to Fouriespruit was General Lucas Meyer’s commandos, Wakkerstroom, Vryheid, Utrecht, Krugersdorp and Middelburg, in addition to the Pretoria section of the German Corps together with a total of four Krupps, two French field cannon, a Pom-pom and a maxim which had been taken off the English at Talana.”

What followed now was a stalemate with there being no inclination from either side to break the deadlock. The Boer leadership seemed satisfied with the hope that a protracted siege would throttle the British garrison into starvation which would lead to their surrender. The British, on the other hand, attempted only a few “break out” initiatives, most of which were unsuccessful.

With Buller having arrived in Natal to take personal command of the efforts to relieve Ladysmith, it now became necessary to siphon off some of the Burgers lying inactive on the hills around Ladysmith. To this end some were sent to Stormberg in the Eastern Cape whilst others, under General Louis Botha, were deployed in and around Colenso – not only to halt the onward march of Buller’s men but to try and force a way through to the coast.



Wakkerstroom Commando

One of the incidents in which the Wakkerstroom Commando were involved was the famous Armoured Train Incident which took place on 15 November 1899.

An English-speaking Doctor with the Boers, G O Moorhead published an article in The Cornhill Magazine, which made direct reference to this incident:

"General Joubert joined the column near the drift through the Klip River, there was a brief halt for breakfast, and then their whole column streamed forward again, over the railway across Pieter’s Hill to Colenso, which had been for some days in the possession of the Free Staters. The idea was, I believe, to attack the British troops at Estcourt, about whose numbers very contradictory reports were current. The expedition was accompanied by two guns and a Maxim, as far as I know, and consisted of some three thousand Transvaalers: a thousand Free Staters were to join with artillery at Colenso. We arrived at the Tugela in the afternoon, and lay there all next day, encamping on a tiny green spot under an abandoned fort on Hart’s Hill near the railway bridge.

Outside the village we met a messenger dashing along, who told us they were fighting in front, but the fog was so thick and the rain so heavy that we could hear and see nothing, and the wagons plodded through the mud at a hopelessly slow rate. At Chieveley station we heard that an armoured train had been upset and was still fighting desperately, and after a very short halt we pressed on. Gleeful Boers whom we met returning told us that we were too late to see any fighting, and that the crew had surrendered, some fifty or more; and soon afterwards we saw trudging towards us in the rain and mud a little compact body of men on foot surrounded by mounted burghers. As they came near us we distinguished the sodden soiled khaki uniforms: a few officers marched stolidly in front, a man in mufti with an injured hand among them (Winston Churchill), the others plodded resignedly along—seamen some of them we could tell by their hats— marching back to Colenso.

One of the burgher guards stopped to tell us all about it. The train had been derailed by some of the Wakkerstroom men, who had ridden hurriedly down and placed stones on the line near a curve. They were now escorting the prisoners, and were beside themselves with delight. They told Dr. Watt, their doctor, who knew most of them, that there had been a stiff fight for it, and gave glowing details about Winston Churchill's gallantry, which they must have heard of from the soldiers. In the afternoon I rode over to look at the wrecked train: some of the trucks were on the line, two others were off, one of which was overturned and the other on its side. Battered helmets, empty cartridge cases lay about; the silent khaki-clad forms, their helmets over their faces, lay sheltered from the falling rain inside the half overturned track; curious burghers were continually riding up and hovering about. The trucks themselves showed very faint scratches where the Mauser bullets had struck the hard steel, but ugly holes gaped where the Boer shells had gone through and through. ‘They think they can boss us with their trains and inventions,’ a young Boer was saying, ‘but we Afrikanders are too much for them! ’

Again, to gain insight from a Boer perspective, we turn to Breytenbach who, in Chapter 15 – The Boer Campaign in Natal – wrote:-

Veld Kornet Swart van Wakkerstroom (it must be here remembered that Stoop fell directly under his command according to his Vorm B) and VK. Sarel Oosthuizen of Krugersdorp conducted themselves so well in this fight with Haldane’s troops that the Commandant General regarded it as his duty to specially bring this to the attention of the Government in a report which read thus: ‘In today's battle, VK. Swart from district 2, Wakkerstroom, and VK. C. Oosthuizen from Krugersdorp particularly distinguished themselves in active service as well as for obedience and courage, as reported to me and witnessed firsthand.”

In a telegram he sent to his wife the next day, General Botha provided the following information in connection with that incident:

“16 Nov. Yesterday an armored train from Estcourt came upon us. The Commandants of Wakkerstroom and Krugersdorp immediately detoured with their men with me and when they returned the front truck derailed where our Burgers had placed rocks on the tracks. Our guns were in order and quickly penetrated the armored trucks. The engine broke down and returned badly damaged. Loss of enemy 4 dead, 14 wounded and 58 captured, as well as a mountain gun was taken by us. From our side, 4 of the above-mentioned civilians were slightly injured. This took place in Blaauwkrantz. Later the enemy approached a patrol of Burgers from Ermelo in thick fog and rain and two of our men were killed. The commando rushed into the fray and shot the enemy back. Their loss unknown. Blood spots visible everywhere. A lot of rain.”

Buller’s army was now growing in size and strength by the day, with the influx of fresh troops from across the Empire and a growing number of Colonials joining the fray. Ladysmith was still a stalemate with hunger, sickness and disease, intensifying the pressure on Buller to get a move on. The first of a series of attempts to roll the Boers back and enter the town was the battle for Colenso.

Colenso – 15 December 1899

This was not Buller’s finest hour. With the Boer Commandos dug in on the northern bank of the Tugela River, the British, with woefully inadequate maps and field intelligence at their disposal, elected to try and ford the river where a loop had been created - at precisely the worst possible place. Add to that the decision by Colonel Long to take his artillery too far forward into this bend in the river and you have the recipe for a disaster – this was exactly what happened to the British at Colenso. As the men in close marching order approached the Boers concealed in their trenches, the Boers, who had been patiently awaiting their moment, opened fire from close range. It was an annihilation leading to the loss of many men and the capture of guns by the Boers.

General Botha, in a despatch to Pretoria wrote as follows (wherein the Wakkerstroom Commando is mentioned):

“A force consisting of infantry, cavalry and one battery moved in an easterly direction in support of the enemy's right (eastern) flank. A part of this force, so it proved later, had instructions to take possession, if possible, of the hill on the opposite side of the river, held by Comdt. Joubert (J.A.) of Wakkerstroom and Comdt. Muller of Standerton, assisted by Field-cornet Gouws of Olifants River, Middelburg district, Field-cornet Strydom of Soutpansberg and Acting Field-cornet Steyn of Ermelo with their men. Our burghers here allowed the enemy, who were apparently unaware that the hill was occupied by us, to approach to approximately 60 yards and then opened fire on them. It need hardly be said that this fire was highly effective and immediately put to flight what was still left of the enemy. At about three o'clock in the afternoon the enemy, having been repulsed at all points, began to retreat along the entire length of the front under cover of their big naval guns, leaving behind on the battlefield their dead and many of their wounded.”

Breytenbach, in Chapter 9 – the Build Up to the Battle of Colenso wrote: -

“On the left wing of Hlangwane Hill – the key to all the Boer positions — were, as already mentioned, the commandos Wakkerstroom (under Kmdt. J. A. Joubert) and Standerton (under Kmdt. Muller), reinforced by one Veld Cornet from each of the districts Middelburg, Soutpansberg and Ermelo — a total of 800 to 1,000 men — without artillery or even maxims. Their orders were to keep the hill at all costs and to attack the enemy as soon as they tried to flee across the Colenso bridge.

As the battle unfolded, Breytenbach in Chapter 10 – The battle of Colenso wrote that:

“ They (the British) advanced to within 60 yards, a distance at which born shots could make no mistake – they were disillusioned when the men of Kmdt. Josua Joubert of Wakkerstroom, Kmdt. Muller van Standerton, VK. Gouws van Middelburg, VK. Strydom van Soutpansberg and VK. Mey of Ermelo suddenly let loose on them with their Mausers whereupon they immediately fled. With that the attack was over and all the men could do was to lie in the warm sun in concealed trenches to the rear of Hlangwane wondering what the exact distance to the summit was, while the exhaustion began to overwhelm them.

…..Thorneycroft who was ordered by Dundonald, under the cover of fire from the 13th Hussars and three companies of the Royal Fusiliers, to slowly fall back alongside Gombaspruit in order to protect the South African Light Horse left flank, suffered the most. His movements to the left were seriously impeded by Burgers of the Wakkerstroom Commando, who had, on the eastern and northern side, crept closer through the thickets to outflank him and cut him off. Through the well-directed fire of the 7th Battery the attempts by the Burgers to cut him off failed, and after a battle which lasted three hours, the brigade was at last out of danger and in a position to fall back to their camp via a wide detour where the troops arrived at 4.30 p.m.”

Buller, having retreated back to his base camp at Frere, plotted and planned his next move. In the meanwhile the inhabitants of Ladysmith despaired of ever being relieved and the death toll mounted as Enteric Fever claimed many more in its foul embrace. The Wakkerstroom Commando returned to the hills around Ladysmith where, shortly after New Year in 1901, a Boer “krygsraad” (council of war) determined to put an end to the stalemate by launching a multi-pronged attack on the town.

Platrand (Waggon Hill) – 6 January 1900

By two o'clock on the morning of the 6th of January the burghers chosen for the assault had all reached their respective rendezvous. The Utrecht men, with some Standerton and Wakkerstroom burghers, under the east slope of the Platrand; the men from Heidelberg were round to their right, a mile from the English hospital; and 1,000 of the Vryheid commando and 100 German Uitlanders had marched from Colenso to the spruit below Bester's Farm, having the Free State contingent under Wagon Hill, to their left.



Boer Riflemen

The attack was made at the three points almost simultaneously, the Vryheiders leading and advancing up the slope of the hill from the south. The enemy was in no way taken by surprise, and the first burghers who cleared the crest fell before a well-directed fire from behind the outer lines of the British positions. But the burghers did not waver. They fired lying in many places within fifty yards of the Tommies, making gaps behind the chanzas wherever a head offered a target for an aim.

The Free Staters had likewise captured the west end of Wagon Hill, led by the brave De Villiers, of Harrismith, and by four o'clock, as the light began to make all things visible, the lower part of the Platrand from east to west was in possession of the burghers.

Thus the first line of the enemy's position on the hill was gallantly captured and held, but the English were by no means beaten off. They fell back to other entrenchments, nearer their guns, and clung to them with dogged tenacity until reinforcements came from the town below, and from other posts within the besieged area.

The flat top of the hill became a scene of the most determined fight which had taken place since the siege began, the combatants in several places being separated by only a few yards. The defenders of the hill had the service at close range of their naval and field guns, and it was this great advantage, coupled with a failure on the part of the Pretoria Commando to succour the Free Staters on Wagon Hill, which enabled White ultimately to beat off the determined assault of his opponents. The fight at this end of the Platrand had been hot and furious from the beginning, the Free Staters repulsing every attempt made to break their hold on the hill. White hurled several detachments of Highlanders, King's Royal Rifles, and Imperial Light Horse against Commandant Nel and his brave men but, though subjected to a terrific fire from two batteries, a naval gun, and fully 2,000 of White's garrison, the Harrismith, Heilbron, Vrede, and Kroonstad burghers heroically withstood the onslaught, and maintained their position for fully ten hours. Four times in succession during the continuous struggle on and around Wagon Hill did the English pluckily rush forward to recapture their ground, only to be shot back remorselessly by the intrepid burghers, until the hill in front of them was almost covered with dead and wounded Tommies.

The attempt to storm the Platrand was the last serious engagement in or around Ladysmith until its relief was effected in February. The official lists of Boer losses, as published in the " Volksstem " of January 10 and 12, 1900, give the killed as 55, and the wounded as 135. The lists are exhaustive in supplying the names, full home address, and the commandoes of the men killed and wounded. The Free Staters were the heaviest losers, the Utrecht, Wakkerstroom, and Heidelberg burghers coming next in proportionate losses.

From the Boer perspective, Breytenbach, in Chapter 1 – the Preparations for the Attack on Platrand wrote: -

The Boer force tasked with the assault on Platrand by the Krygrsraad, was comprised of only four commandos (Utrecht, Vryheid, Winburg en Harrismith), supported by a section (Field Cornet) from each of the commando’s Heilbron, Kroonstad, Wakkerstroom, Heidelberg and Krugersdorp. Genl. Louis Botha was also going to send a reinforcement of 300 men from Colenso, but these were to act as a reserve to those tasked with the assault and were not to take part in the storming of the ridge itself. According to Dominee J. D. Kestell who accompanied the Free State commando and was, consequently a witness to the proceedings, the entire Boer force comprised some 4000 men, half of whom were from the Transvaal and half from the Orange Free State.

According to a report from the Commandant General, that of the Burgers from Wakkerstroom, Heidelberg and Krugersdorp that should have taken part in the attack, some 450 to 500 men, i.e. 150 from Wakkerstroom, 200 from Heidelberg and 100 or 150 from Krugersdorp, only 350 man made their appearance.

From the Transvaal side, the force for the storming of Platrand consisted only of the commando’s Utrecht and Vryheid whose positions in the hills to the south and south east of Platrand, between Fouriespruit and Klip River, and 350 men from Wakkerstroom and Heidelberg who were sent from their positions to the east of Klip River to the west side of the river on 5 January to join up with the Utrecht and Vryheid men.

In Chapter 2 – The Battle of Platrand – he goes into more detail about the battle itself: -

“ A strong section of the commando’s from Heidelberg, Wakkerstroom and Utrecht climbed the eastern slope with the aim of attacking the English on the left flank. The Burgers from Vryheid, followed by the German Corps, climbed the southern slope. Last mentioned were not asked by the Krygsraad with any part in the assault and, as a result, only drew nearer so as to be in reserve at the foot of the hill should they be needed. They also, according to the Times History, did not depart before the break of dawn, because they first had to make emplacements for the cannons coming from Colenso.

In the meanwhile the Burgers of Utrecht, Heidelberg and Wakkerstroom under Kmdte. B. C. Hattingh and C. J. Spruyt took the British troops on the eastern point of Caesar’s Camp completely by surprise, cleverly outflanking them, in accordance with Kmdt. Gen. Joubert’s orders.”

Buller’s fourth and final attempt to relieve Ladysmith – the Tugela Heights campaign – was ultimately successful and Ladysmith was relieved on 1 March 1900 with the Boer Commandos seen streaming away from the town. What was wasn’t well know to Buller was that he wasn’t faced with the full might of the Boer forces in the weeks leading up to the relief. Why was this? The answer lies, in part, with a scurrilous rumour that taken hold and spread like wildfire among the men from Vryheid, Wakkerstroom, Piet Retief and Rustenburg; that Bantu’s (black Africans) were attacking their farms and assaulting their wives and children while they were at the front fighting. This caused so much panic among their ranks that large numbers of men drifted off homewards.

Stroop, by his own admission took part in many actions and skirmishes after this, in the lead-up to the Boer surrender on 31 May 1902. Many of these were in and around his home town of Wakkerstroom and many were under the command of General Louis Botha, including those in his second attempt to invade Natal. The Manchester Evening News 24 June 1901 provides the account of one such action: -

“At Elandsberg on the 13th Colonel Gallwey with 300 Bushmen, two companies of Munster Fusiliers, details of the Sharpshooters and two guns of “Q” Battery, was stopped by a party of 300 Boers, who were strongly entrenched at the Nek. The column had been subjected to heavy sniping for three days previously. Colonel Gallwey succeeded in bringing his column into laager and dispersed the Boers, three of whom being found dead and four wounded.”

Having lain down his arms in June 1902, Stoop attempted to take up farming again but, there was nothing left to farm with and no money to supply the means to do so. The Scorched Earth policy, designed to bring the Boers still out in the field to their knees, had seen to it that there was nothing but dry land to work with. Disillusioned and desperate, he joined his family members in the Volksrust concentration camp. Still only 20 years old he wasn’t able to support himself. On 13 December 1902 he left the camp.

That he was back on the farm trying to make a go of it is confirmed by his marriage certificate – Oudhoutskloof being the address he provided when marrying 16 year old Maria Magdalena Cary from Newcastle at Volksrust on 3 July 1906. She was to bare him a number of children before she passed away in 1931. Stoop the remarried – to the widow Johanna Susanna Magdalena Jordaan (born Coetzer) on 6 February 1933. He was 50 years old whilst she was 36. His address was Amersfoort District, Wakkerstroom.

By this time, Stoop had given up the land and found employment with the South African Railways. Thanks to the South African Railways & Harbours Magazine, his movements were easy to trace with his first entry being in October 1925 where he appears as a Labourer, promoted to acting Ganger, on probation. In April 1927 he was employed as a Junior European Labourer in, ironically, Ladysmith and, a few months later, in October 1927, he was a Probationer transferred to Mooi River. In January 1929 he was promoted to Shunter from learner Shunter whilst employed at Pietermaritzburg.in February 1930 he was transferred to Glencoe Junction as a Shunter and then, in July 1931 to Volksrust from Amersfoort. With each move he was moving closer to where his roots lay. His final posting was back to Amersfoort where he retired in November 1933.

Petrus Wilhelmus Stoop passed away on 15 February 1954 at the age of 71 at his home, 25 Schoon Street, Volksrust from a Coronary Thrombosis. He was a retired Railway Foreman and was receiving an “Oud Stryder’s Pension” (Veteran’s)


Acknowledgments:
- El Ne Watson for the Map of Wakkerstroom
- Breytenbach for the various inserts from the Boer side
- The Times History by Amery
- S.A.R. & H Magazine for post Boer War employment details
- S.A.N.D.F. Archives for Vorm B
- Familysearch. com for Marriage and Death deatils



The following user(s) said Thank You: Elmarie, goose, Moranthorse1

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Burger P.W. Stoop of the Wakkerstroom Commando 1 year 6 months ago #91912

  • Moranthorse1
  • Moranthorse1's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 1064
  • Thank you received: 964
Rory,
A fabulous account of Stoop's life and wartime experiences.
Nice to have so detailed an account from the Boer perspective.
Cheers Steve
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rory, goose, Clive Stone

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
Moderators: djb
Time to create page: 1.119 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum