TOPIC:

Hi, my grandfather Henry Bishop Casey served in the Boer War with the East Surrey Regiment. You only seem to have one Casey in the East Surreys in your information and it isn't him.

Any ideas how I track him down?

Thanks

Hello and welcome to this forum,
Can you provide any more details, there was a 5709 H Casey listed on the medal rolls for the 2nd Battalion, could be him I suppose, but, he is shown as invalided to England, with a single clasp Natal on the QSA, can you tell us anything more?
Almost all surviving service papers for the British Army from that period are available on line at ancestry/FMP, All the oringinals are at the TNA Kew.
Regards Frank

Hi, yes L5709 is him

I have his Boer War medals and a reasonable amount of information about him from WW1 but can't seem to track anything from South Africa

I went to TNA last week but didn't make any progress there.

I am an Ancestory member.

I have also contacted his regimental museum who gave some info re WW1. They have him recorded as a Corporal and finishing as an Acting Sergeant. They also say there is confusion over him being in the 2nd Battalion because they were in India when the war broke out and didn't get home and out to France until January 1915, so the 1914/15 star I have for him may be doubtful. I am told (but it is unconfirmed now as nobody who would know survives) that he was in India and performed for the king at the Indian Durbah - he was a PT Instructor I am told - and the photos I have show him in PT kit and a rippling mass of muscle, and his discharge in 1915 says he was in the 1st battalion - rejoining into the 2nd battalion in 1916

He enlisted for the first time at Dalston East London on 1st November 1898 and joined the East Surreys. The next thing I have is his WW1 medal card showing him an Acting Sergeant discharged on 31st October 1915 from the 1st Battalion East Surreys as L5709. His records show him as being Time Expired in October 1915 - if he had been in the services continuously that would have been 17 years. However, I also have his re-joining papers dated 6th October 1916 when he re-entered the East Surreys as 24688 having been called up again.

Hello again,
What is the particular information you are after regarding the Boer War?
He is not on the published casualty roll, so we can assume he was invalided back to England because of illness.
Is his 1914-15 star shown on the index card, you could of course receive one for service in india, is the naming original?
Victorian Infantry soldiers often joined for 12 years, on a short service B265 so you see them serve 7 years with the colours "while beyond the seas" and 5 years with the reserve.
Regards Frank

Hi Frank, sorry - I had to go out

Not sure why you would think he was invalided back to England? I am not aware of him being a casualty

He was on a 7 + 5 enlistment, although if he joined at 18 years old in 1898 then 12 years takes him to 1910 which means he would not have been serving in 1914 when the war began yet his medal card, and an attestaion paper, say he was dischraged October 1915 as time expired, which would make him in the army for 17 years? I have read on a web site that there were a great number of soldiers who returned from India in 1915 and 1916 and were discharged as Time Expired with some then being convinced to stay on or re-enlist, but this seemed to relate to Territorial Forces.

His star is the 1914 one

I have a Christmas 1914 Princess Alice gift box said to be his.

I have a variety of brass buttons all with Eat Surrey and regimental lamb insignia on them but with different backing data - eg Buttons Limited Birmingham, Wm Bowler & Sons Ltd Birmingham, Meer Jones Birmingham, and Army & Navy Supply Stores London. I don't know if that dates any of them. There are also with nothing on the back of them

There are a few sets of British Army Physical Training Corps crossed swords insignia which stacks up with his role as a PT Instructor

I have an East Surrey 6th Battalion Maltese cross cap badge with South Africa 1900 - 1902 on it.

His Kings South Africa medal has two bars on it - South Africa 1901 and South Africa 1902. The only thing I can make out around its rim is REGT

His Queens South Africa medal has three bars - Natal, South Africa 1901 and South Africa 1902. The rim is inscribed 5709 Pte H casey 2nd E Surrey RegT

His WW1 medals comprise a 1914 Star inscribed on the back with L-5709 Cpl H casey 1 /E Surrey; a Victory Medal inscribed L-5709 A Sjt H Casey E.Surr.R and the British War Medal inscribed L-5709 A Sjt H Casey E Surr R

I have a very worn Victorian Helmet Plate East Surrey badge - silver/brass colours

I also have a waist coat chain - the sort a pocket watch would be on - which has several badges relating to sporting events at his employer Bryant & May and these are varioulsy dated 1910, 1914, 1913/14, 1911/12, 1913, 1912/13 which all mean he could not have been in the army at this period so 7 years + 5 on reserve would sound right getting him back into civilian life for 1905? Interestingly the last badge on the chain is an East Surrey regiment insignia nd on the back it iinscribed C C Race 1918 B Coy so he must have been in the B Company of the 2nd Battalion East Surreys in 1918 doing a cross country race

It's all a bit duanting and confusing - I suppose what I want to know is where did he do what and which actions would he have served in?

Regards

Roy

Hello Roy,
When I looked at the entry on the QSA roll, it does state in the remarks column Invalided to England, also consistant with a single clasp Natal, also shown on the same roll.
I would think he was called back to the colours in August 1914 and posted to the 1st Battalion from what you have said regarding his service and his star, have you seen or do you actually have a copy of his Army Form B265?
I ask this because, in your last post, you say he was on a "7+5" so if you have seen it, it will confirm both the medals and in the service statement and military history, it should tell the dates he was in South Africa along with the date he returned to England, this will give you an idea of what actions he may have taken part in.
You could not recieve the 1914 star for service in any asiatic theatre, so again, you need to look at the medal index card, that star was recieved for service with the BEF in France, check the actual medal roll referred to on the MIC too!
The makers you list on the buttons reverses are very typical for the period in question.
If he has additional clasps on his QSA they would be issued from the supplementary roll, in which case he should not have a KSA!
Is the KSA actually his, you can check the rolls, both supplementary and KSA on ancestry.
Regarding his service in South africa, the regt was present in Natal and fought at Willow Grange, Colenso, Venter's Spruit, Vaal Krantz and all the way to Ladysmith and beyond, a good regt! but all would depend on the date he was invalided home.
You seem to have a great deal of information already though, but, if a man was not wounded in a particular action, it is very difficult to say that he was actually there!
I think you need to sit down and spend some more time reading what you already have regarding papers.
Regards Frank