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TOPIC: How to determine if these BSAP medals were actually issued?

How to determine if these BSAP medals were actually issued? 10 months 2 weeks ago #57143

  • djb
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I don't think the medals rolls are available in a digitally transribed form. I plan to add the recipients to the site in the same was as ABO recipients have been added but that is going to take me the rest of the year to do.

David Biggins

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How to determine if these BSAP medals were actually issued? 10 months 2 weeks ago #57147

  • rdarby
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Sent you a PM Rory.

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How to determine if these BSAP medals were actually issued? 10 months 2 weeks ago #57148

  • Frank Kelley
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Yes, they would certainly have been entitled, it is interesting to note that it had originally been the intention of the BSA Company to only issued a clasp if a man had earned 1893 or 1896 medal, before deciding on the more expensive option of a second medal, in return for the first, the company tried, not always successfully, to ensure the exchange took place.
I would think all were actually prepared for eventual issue too and there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that these particular three were not, WO77 attached.

rdarby wrote: I've never looked at the original roll, and not sure where to find them.

I am trying to determine if medals were actually issued to:
JP Borrius
F. Mandy
RG Nicholson

Anyone know if the rolls are online or if there is a researcher with access please?

Thanks for the help.
Ryan


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How to determine if these BSAP medals were actually issued? 10 months 2 weeks ago #57150

  • David Grant
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Hi Ryan, I think I would trust Forsyth's Roll more than Owen. Owen is useful in that it is alphabetical. Forsyth has JP Borrius & RG Nicholson as having been issued the medal & F. Mandy as not. I do not have the Robert's CD but Borrius is on Forsyth's as been issued.

Looking for Salutries, Salootries and Veterinary Duffadars.
I collect primarily QSAs to Indian Recipients.

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Looking for Salutries, Salootries and Veterinary Duffadars.
I collect primarily QSAs to Indian Recipients.

How to determine if these BSAP medals were actually issued? 10 months 2 weeks ago #57151

  • Henk Loots
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Hi Rory
Lt Frank Mandy, Pioneer Corps, returned to South Africa in 1891. He was Compound Manager for De Beers in Kimberley and got a QSA as Captain in the Kimberley TG. He was unmarried and died in June 1903. He was entitled to a 1890 BSA Medal, but, as confirmed in the Upfill-Brown 1890 Roll, it was (obviously) never applied for. The S Rhod Gov Gazette of 30 April 1926 in which, what Upfill-Brown called the "Bastard Medal", was announced, did not make provision for next-of -kin to apply. Arthur Frank Mandy who got an ABO/LvW was possibly a distant relative.
Lt Richard Glanville Nicholson's Who's Who entries credit him with 9 medals. I could confirm eight: the SAGS (Diamond Fields Horse), BSA 1890 (Pioneer Column), ABO, 1910 Union Medal, 14/15 Trio and OBE for GSWA. He claimed service in Basutoland 1881, but he is not on the Cape GS roll. I traced R G Nicholson's grandson in the mid-1980's. At the time he had the OBE (which I borrowed for a while to show at the MMSofSA's meeting) and said the campaign medals were in the museum in Pietersburg. A visit to the museum turned up records of them being on loan, but apparently they had been stolen. Quite a pity as Mr Nicholson was quite amenable to selling me the group if the rest of the family agreed! He then decided to keep the OBE. When I visited the Nicholson house a few years ago, his widow had no knowledge of what had happened to the OBE
I do have the ABO to R G Nicholson's son who was a youngster of 13 when he was captured with his father in 1901
Henk
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How to determine if these BSAP medals were actually issued? 10 months 2 weeks ago #57164

  • Frank Kelley
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Hello Rory,
The rolls are in WO77 and are only partially available on line, in the case of British army recipients, there is an additional distribution roll.
Whilst they are of some use, on occasion, they bring forth more questions than they answer, notwithstanding, both the main and supplementary 1896 rolls are, in the case of the Companies own forces, particularly useful,
Of the two transcribed published rolls you mention, neither of which I use, I would think Colin Owen's is actually the better.
Regards Frank

Rory wrote: The rolls aren't on line Ryan which is a pain. Add to that there are (I think) two versions of the roll - the Owen roll and the Forsyth roll.

Neither of which I have unfortunately. I rely on the good graces of a few collecting friends who have these rolls to confirm an entitlement or otherwise.

Perhaps if David has them he can add them to this site?

Regards

Rory


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