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Greetings all:
Been a while since I have last posted here, but I am presented with a small puzzle that I hope members can assist on.
I have the CEF WWI service records for Joseph Henry PACKHAM, and on his attestation papers he lists previous service in the 5th Royal Highlanders of Canada (1 year),The Queens West Surreys (18 years), and service in South Africa (16 months). As he lists his birthdate as Feb 11, 1876 at Croydon Surrey, it would seem that he might well have been in the Queens, with possible service in the ABW.
I am wondering if any member can assist with any information on this man, as it would appear that no man of this name is listed as having been in the ABW,
if I have read your name lists correctly, but perhaps an expert on the Queens might find something on his service, which would appear to have been for many years. Of course, he might have fought in one or more of the colonial wars which I am unaware of, so any tid bit will be most welcome here.
If nothing found, perhaps he padded his CEF attestation papers, but I am hoping that this might not be the case.
Can anyone assist??
Thanks!
John S

Hello John,
Packham enlisted into the Army, the Queens, from the Militia, a Volunteer Battalion of the same, for a single year, short service engagement, as number 7397 Private, on the 7th of February 1900 at Croydon.
He was promoted the same day to sergeant and served through the Anglo Boer War, Home service in in Great Britain only, until the 25th of May 1901.
Regards Frank Kelley

John S wrote: Greetings all:
Been a while since I have last posted here, but I am presented with a small puzzle that I hope members can assist on.
I have the CEF WWI service records for Joseph Henry PACKHAM, and on his attestation papers he lists previous service in the 5th Royal Highlanders of Canada (1 year),The Queens West Surreys (18 years), and service in South Africa (16 months). As he lists his birthdate as Feb 11, 1876 at Croydon Surrey, it would seem that he might well have been in the Queens, with possible service in the ABW.
I am wondering if any member can assist with any information on this man, as it would appear that no man of this name is listed as having been in the ABW,
if I have read your name lists correctly, but perhaps an expert on the Queens might find something on his service, which would appear to have been for many years. Of course, he might have fought in one or more of the colonial wars which I am unaware of, so any tid bit will be most welcome here.
If nothing found, perhaps he padded his CEF attestation papers, but I am hoping that this might not be the case.
Can anyone assist??
Thanks!
John S

Frank:
Many thanks for your prompt reply.
Well, it looks like he may have "padded" his CEF attestation papers afterall!
Definately no service in the ABW in South Africa, so no ABW medal, (actually, his CEF papers state "South Africa 16 months- no claim it was IN South Africa)but is it possible that he saw previous service elsewhere before the ABW? Does your reference indicate the dates he served in the militia in the volunteer battalion, before enlisting in the short service engagement of 1900? Any idea as to why/how he might have been promoted so quickly from Pte to Sgt? Might he have retained a military connection after 25 May 1901? He certainly must have felt the patriotic pull enough to have enlisted into the CEF in Canada in 1915!
Might it be possible to obtain photocopies of your references?? It would aid me greatly in understanding this rather interesting/unusual service record.
Cheers,
John S

Hello John,
Sorry for the late reply, I was going through the door yesterday to a wedding, moreover, in my initial reply to you, I went off half cocked and just said what I saw, I was running rather late and did not bother to check.
Okay then, back to Packham, the available folio in WO97 are incomplete and have clearly not been filled in properly.
He has not "padded" anything and you should take his CEF papers as correct.
I normally go with WO97, but, upon looking at them they are indeed incomplete, WO100/166 shows his service in South Africa with a Volunteer Service Company of his regiment, so the medal with Cape Colony, Orange Free State, Transvaaal and interestingly Laings Nek too.
In addition, he did receive the gratuity of £10 for the war, he had served in the 1st Volunteer Battalion of the Queens before joining the Army in Croydon on the date as stated.
His rank would have merely reflected that already held in the Militia, there is no available WO96 folio to confirm this so you would have to do a manual search at Kew to make sure.
Again, I'd just go with his Canadian Expeditionary Force papers given the evidence available here.
Both WO100 and WO97 are available to you on line or at Kew.
I need to go and detox now, an all night bender in a night club into the small hours does not aid matters related to the Anglo Boer War, so perhaps I'll talk to you later about Packham.
Kind regards Frank Kelley

John S wrote: Frank:
Many thanks for your prompt reply.
Well, it looks like he may have "padded" his CEF attestation papers afterall!
Definately no service in the ABW in South Africa, so no ABW medal, (actually, his CEF papers state "South Africa 16 months- no claim it was IN South Africa)but is it possible that he saw previous service elsewhere before the ABW? Does your reference indicate the dates he served in the militia in the volunteer battalion, before enlisting in the short service engagement of 1900? Any idea as to why/how he might have been promoted so quickly from Pte to Sgt? Might he have retained a military connection after 25 May 1901? He certainly must have felt the patriotic pull enough to have enlisted into the CEF in Canada in 1915!
Might it be possible to obtain photocopies of your references?? It would aid me greatly in understanding this rather interesting/unusual service record.
Cheers,
John S

Frank:
This is very good news! Most pleased to learn that his statement of previous service on his CEF attestation papers would probably be correct as stated.
Most interested to learn that he was entitled to the ABW medal with 4 clasps. I would guess that there was no entitlement to the Kings SA medal, due to his not being in SA for the required time period?
Thanks for the explanation in regards to his rank jumping from Pte to Sgt so quickly. Makes sense that an experienced soldier would retain his previous rank, or be promoted quickly as an alternative.
Would I be correct in assuming that as per his statement of being in the Queens West Surreys 18 years as per his CEF attestation papers, he may have been counting his pre 1900 service in the 1st Volunteer Bn of the Queens, whatever time that might have been, as well as post ABW service, perhaps in the same regular Bn of the Queens? Would info in W0 97 and or WO 100 reveal this info?
Again, Thanks for double checking your sources here- it really helps me understand better his military service during the ABW.
Do take care! Sometimes it is great to party hardy, but you are always reminded the next day how much party there was the previous day!!
Cheers,
John S

Hello John,
The Militia died a death and became the Special Reserve on formation of the Territorial Force in 1908, so again, I would take anything in his Canadian papers to be correct.
Given that he was appointed to the rank of sergeant on the day he joins the Army, it would be very safe to assume that he was a senior NCO in the Militia, that rank could take a long time to actually attain, the time actually spent in the Militia would have certainly been pre Anglo Boer War, but, could well have continued after it had ended too.
A search in WO96 would be needed to make quite sure there have been no omissions, if that is the case, then sadly, you may never know for certain beyond reasonable doubt.
Regards Frank