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TOPIC: Re: British 303 Rounds.... Regular - Dum Dum

British 303 Rounds.... Regular - Dum Dum 7 years 1 week ago #6368

  • QSAMIKE
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Good Evening Frank.....

Just a few more rounds that I have in my collection..... All British 303.....

These were brought back by a vet and were kept by the family and when I purchased the medal these came along with it.....

The markings on the bottom of the cartridge are as follows: On one of the solid rounds - C - 6 - Roman Numeral II and C - 1 - Roman Numeral II, the other two are marked - D - Broad Arrow - C - G and Roman Numeral V....

Mike






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Re: British 303 Rounds.... Regular - Dum Dum 7 years 1 week ago #6384

  • Frank Kelley
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Hi Mike,
A mix of Canadian and British, but, I am shocked that the family of Joseph Chamberlain, a man, venerated thoughout the empire! :evil: would be capable of the manufacture of such things!
Regards Frank

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Re: British 303 Rounds.... Regular - Dum Dum 7 years 1 week ago #6387

  • LinneyI
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Dear Frank and Mike
I hate to quibble, but ..... the .303" rounds shown with the hollow nose are Mark 5 (Roman numeral "V") ball made by the Dominion Cartridge Company, Canada. They are not "Dum Dum". The actual .303' Dum Dum round featured a projectile with a rather small lead soft point and was called "the Dum Dum Mark II SPECIAL". It was introduced circa 1896-97 for the Indian Army and was obsolete in 1900. Perhaps some DDS's got to SA in the pouches of troops sent from India? The .303" Mk.5 ball rounds were introduced 11/1899 and ran afoul of an International convention on warfare; which probibited the use of "expanding" projectiles on humans. GB did not immediately ratify the agreement - but withdrew hollow nosed rifle ammunition from active service.
The .303" Mark II round shown with "6" in the headstamp was made by a so far unidentified Brit. Government Contractor; wheras the round with "1" was made by Birmingham Metals and Munitions Company - again on contract. All of the rounds shown have "C" in the headstamp; means Cordite propellent.
MkII .303" Cordite rounds of many and varied makers are widely found here in OZ and most would have come back from the ABW.
I have read the occasional source which claims Empire soldiers used "Dum Dum" (sic) ammunition in the ABW. One can never be certain at this remove and I sometimes wonder if commentators of the day saw ammunition packets MADE at Dum Dum and jumped to a conclusion.
To conclude, the Boers definitely did use soft nose 7mm and .303" ammunition of commercial manufacture.
Sorry this note went on for longer that I thought it would.
IL

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Re: British 303 Rounds.... Regular - Dum Dum 7 years 1 week ago #6388

  • Frank Kelley
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Hello Ian,
I think perhaps Mike uses the term Dum Dum as it is and has been, really just a generic way of describing expanding munitions, from memory, G would be Greenwood and Batley.
Regards Frank

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Re: British 303 Rounds.... Regular - Dum Dum 7 years 1 week ago #6419

  • LinneyI
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Frank
Yes, "Dum Dum" has been widely used generically - and incorrectly. The true "Dum Dum" is a specific TYPE of expanding ammunition. And might I say a quite rare one. As described in the first post, none of the rounds were made by Greenwood and Batley; at the time of the ABW, their code was GB.
Regards
IL.

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Re: British 303 Rounds.... Regular - Dum Dum 7 years 1 week ago #6420

  • Frank Kelley
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Ian,
The Greenwood and Batley factory at Leeds used G, GB and GBF as headstamps. I have seen, handled and used their ammunition from both the 19th and 20th centuries.
Regards Frank

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