TOPIC:

Absolutley Mike - Kaplan acknowledges the shortcomings that couldn't be helped, all his rolls are a great starting point. This excercise shows how much more there is to do.

"And after seeing Meurig's comments I do not think that I will find one....
"
I have verified two from my list and they are in Kaplan - Beare KLH and Duncan Rhod. Rgt. I haven't the time right now to carry on (work, the curse of the researcher). I am sure you will find them - I think there are 27 more at least.

Good hunting!
Meurig

QSAMIKE wrote: Good Morning Meurig.....

Just copying the listings that are stated in Kaplan's roll.... I am sure that he made it before the time of computers and the internet and of course this fantastic forum..... It is still a good starting point....

Mike

SWB wrote: Kaplan does not list single clasps.

Hibbard in his Single Bar monograph doesn't list recipients or numbers, just a category.

RoM for Imperials is 'Unknown' and for Colonials 'Extremely Rare'.

With databases we can check his work and he is mistaken for Imperials:

Pte 4405 HD Dent 10th Hussars - single RoM. The only one I know about.

I don't have a figure for Colonials but Hibbard only knew about such medals to the SALH, Kitchener's Horse and Rhodesia Regt. I can't add to that list.

The 10 clasp medal to Emerton is strictly invalid as Kaplan lists Transvaal along with battle clasps for the Transvaal. Would be interesting to see his medal.

Onwards and upwards!

Hello Mike,
Are you looking at the published roll or his manuscript for the published roll?
Regards Frank

QSAMIKE wrote: Good Morning Meurig.....

Just copying the listings that are stated in Kaplan's roll.... I am sure that he made it before the time of computers and the internet and of course this fantastic forum..... It is still a good starting point....

Mike

SWB wrote: Kaplan does not list single clasps.

Hibbard in his Single Bar monograph doesn't list recipients or numbers, just a category.

RoM for Imperials is 'Unknown' and for Colonials 'Extremely Rare'.

With databases we can check his work and he is mistaken for Imperials:

Pte 4405 HD Dent 10th Hussars - single RoM. The only one I know about.

I don't have a figure for Colonials but Hibbard only knew about such medals to the SALH, Kitchener's Horse and Rhodesia Regt. I can't add to that list.

The 10 clasp medal to Emerton is strictly invalid as Kaplan lists Transvaal along with battle clasps for the Transvaal. Would be interesting to see his medal.

Onwards and upwards!

Good afternoon Meurig,
This might sound a bit of a silly question, but, if he had no access to all the rolls, how could he verify any of them and how on earth could he hope to transcribe them and publish his own roll?
Regards Frank

SWB wrote:

Frank Kelley wrote: Good morning Meurig,
I have been very aware of Mr Hibbard's thoughts for many years now.
Are you saying that Mr Kaplan does not list any single clasp medals or are you saying he does not show a separate list for them within his roll?
Regards Frank

Hello Frank

Kaplan doesn't give a figure for single clasp medals or list them - this may well be because he had no sure way of verifying them - he would need access to all the rolls.

Regards
Meurig

Hi Frank.....

I am looking at a photocopy of the Manuscript.

Mike

Frank Kelley wrote: Hello Mike,
Are you looking at the published roll or his manuscript for the published roll?
Regards Frank

QSAMIKE wrote: Good Morning Meurig.....

Just copying the listings that are stated in Kaplan's roll.... I am sure that he made it before the time of computers and the internet and of course this fantastic forum..... It is still a good starting point....

Mike

SWB wrote: Kaplan does not list single clasps.

Hibbard in his Single Bar monograph doesn't list recipients or numbers, just a category.

RoM for Imperials is 'Unknown' and for Colonials 'Extremely Rare'.

With databases we can check his work and he is mistaken for Imperials:

Pte 4405 HD Dent 10th Hussars - single RoM. The only one I know about.

I don't have a figure for Colonials but Hibbard only knew about such medals to the SALH, Kitchener's Horse and Rhodesia Regt. I can't add to that list.

The 10 clasp medal to Emerton is strictly invalid as Kaplan lists Transvaal along with battle clasps for the Transvaal. Would be interesting to see his medal.

Onwards and upwards!

Hello Frank

From Kaplan's introduction (revised copy 1980):

"A diligent search of the rolls [held by the TNA] of the regiments involved in the Relief of Mafeking, has been undertaken.." So he looked at the units known to be involved.

Kaplan acknowledges the 'odd men'; "without searching all 215 volumes [of QSA rolls] one can never be sure that all the men involved in this action, have been included in this roll".

So, for the single claspers indicated in Kaplan's roll which Mike may or may not be extracting they would have to be checked against a database to ensure they did not get other clasps with different units. I have found in a few instances that not every cross-reference where a man served in more than unit is made on the rolls.

Hope this helps.

Meurig

Frank Kelley wrote: Good afternoon Meurig,
This might sound a bit of a silly question, but, if he had no access to all the rolls, how could he verify any of them and how on earth could he hope to transcribe them and publish his own roll?
Regards Frank

SWB wrote:

Frank Kelley wrote: Good morning Meurig,
I have been very aware of Mr Hibbard's thoughts for many years now.
Are you saying that Mr Kaplan does not list any single clasp medals or are you saying he does not show a separate list for them within his roll?
Regards Frank

Hello Frank

Kaplan doesn't give a figure for single clasp medals or list them - this may well be because he had no sure way of verifying them - he would need access to all the rolls.

Regards
Meurig

Good evening Meurig,
Okay, yes, I agree, but, what about any man who is shown as invalided, dead or killed, those men that are highly unlikely to have seen prior service because of the dates concerned or their regt/corps?
I would have included them and perhaps added a note along the lines of requires further verification.
Of course, with the others, a close look at any surviving papers can often prove or discount additional service either way.
What short of figure do you think we are talking about here, I am thinking perhaps fifty, what do you think?
Regards Frank